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The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

forbes.com

31–40 of 99 posts

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#31

I don't understand this. During my PhD my "scholarship" was just basically the university choosing not to charge me money. It's not as though I sat down and set on fire $20k worth of paper every year. So now they have to pay tax on to the amount they would have otherwise charged me? Isn't that kind of a hypothetical concept? Like, can't they say, "Oh the tuition for the civil engineering PhD program is now zero"? Vir…

Graduate students cost research groups about as much as postdocs cost, precisely because we're paying the University for the analog of the tuition waiver.

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#32
post #16
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that universities jack up the tuition knowing the students can get government subsidized loans and grants. Then they give tuition waivers to those who cant because the prices are jacked up and getting something from them is better than nothing.

But these students aren't getting loans - they're having their tuition waived. Now the government wants to tax the amount waived as income. If anything, graduate students will now be forced to get loans in order to pay their taxes - which is absurd.

Or maybe tuition will come back down to a level that actually matches what it costs to run the school, and grad student instructors will get paid a wage instead?

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#33

The misinformation in this thread is astounding. This is targeting graduate student tuition waivers : waivers given to students who are usually also receiving a stipend, who are almost never taking out loans to manage degree costs. It's likely that there is a better way for universities to quantify the net movement of money between student and institution, but to have lowly-paid graduate students bear the brunt of th…

Uh, it worked the same way for Masters degrees at Wisconsin (source: I have one and this tax "reform" would have screwed me).

I don't understand your undergrad comment, the tax bill doesn't change anything there so far as I know.

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#34

My alternate headline: GOP Tax Plan will force institutions to alter graduate tuition accounting Tuition waivers are currently used, especially in the science disciplines, to have outside research grant dollars pay for grad-student tuition. If this tax plan passes, tuition waivers would no longer make sense and the dollars from research grants would need to shift. This probably means lower tuition for certain program…

Don’t tuition waivers come out of grant overhead anyways? In that case, the amount of a grant going to research wouldn’t change, just divisions in how the overhead is allocated.

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Personally, I'd like to see a balanced approach: shift some of the money to increase those laughable stipends into something livable, and put the rest where it belongs: on admin costs. The shell game universities are playing is part of the problem. Hopefully, if this change makes it into the final bill, Universities do the right thing and don't stick it to their Grad Students.

Why do research grants belong paying admin costs? I thought they were for, you know, conducting research. (Yet apparently most universities already take something like a 50% cut)

I think the original intent is to pay for overhead (lab space, core labs that provide services, office space, etc.) but maybe the administrative bloat has grown to absorb more research money just as it makes up a large portion of total university expenses.

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#36

So the plan is... >> Under the new GOP tax plan, however, those tuition waivers would be taxed as regular income... Sensationalist headlines aside... Why is this being targeted in the new tax plan? Usually I can find something with a quote from someone that explains.

Simple tax plans are economically efficient; deductions increase the overall tax rate and distort the market. This is being taken out as one of many deductions; it isn't being targeted in any real sense.

Broad-based low-rate tax codes are widely accepted to be the best kinds of tax codes.

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Personally, I'd like to see a balanced approach: shift some of the money to increase those laughable stipends into something livable, and put the rest where it belongs: on admin costs. The shell game universities are playing is part of the problem. Hopefully, if this change makes it into the final bill, Universities do the right thing and don't stick it to their Grad Students.

Can you elaborate more on what is going on at universities? Are you saying that grant money comes in for research, but gets funneled back to the university through tuition?

That's correct, part of grant money is allocated to salaries for graduate students and postdocs, sometimes even salaries for the professor himself. The corollary is that any PhD program in the sciences where it's the student who pays the tuition is worthless.

Another part of a research grant goes to the institution, that's the dreaded "indirect costs".

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#38

No, it won't. The sensationalism all around is just infuriating; I know it's basically politics in a nutshell, but this sort of crap is getting really old. It's not going to destroy higher education; it might raise the bar a bit of who goes to graduate school, and force schools to do more to entice top tier talent to come to their school, but it's not going to destroy it.

Can you provide any specific details on how the new suggested tax plan will raise the bar? It seems as though we should be encouraging Graduate and PhD students. It seems as though it would force additional students into taking out loans if their tuition is not waived?

If the only thing standing in the way of a student continuing on Graduate or PhD studies is grant money, they shouldn't have trouble finding a job. In that case, if the university wants to attract those students from the private sector, they'll have to find a way to increase a student's stipend to cover these expenses. At top-tier schools where tuition is the highest, their endowment is likely large enough to support this move.

Alternatively, the schools could adjust what they charge students for tuition. As the article states, the cost of a year at Princeton's grad school is $49k/yr. Somehow I suspect that this sticker price is not tied to much in terms of their cost, but if it means charging less to students if that allows them to attract top talent, they could probably do that as well.

In terms of raising the bar, to me this would mean that if graduate schools want top talent, they'll have to find a way to do it: raise the stipend, lower the cost of tuition or something else. In this case, a very bright student who can't afford graduate school will either have to go into industry or the schools will have to find a way to keep them.

On the downside, if we follow the pattern of the last 30 years, the reaction will go something like:

1) Students struggle to afford college tuition

2) Government steps in to make large cheap-ish loans available beyond what might be reasonable ().

3) Students now have access to loans to go to any school they want

4) Colleges notice that they can raise price because students don't price shop

5) Colleges raise their prices

() They're government backed loans that are difficult to discharge, mostly because there is nothing to repossess and interest rates would likely go through the roof if students could graduate and immediately discharge their loans.

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#39

The misinformation in this thread is astounding. This is targeting graduate student tuition waivers : waivers given to students who are usually also receiving a stipend, who are almost never taking out loans to manage degree costs. It's likely that there is a better way for universities to quantify the net movement of money between student and institution, but to have lowly-paid graduate students bear the brunt of th…

Uh, it worked the same way for Masters degrees at Wisconsin (source: I have one and this tax "reform" would have screwed me). I don't understand your undergrad comment, the tax bill doesn't change anything there so far as I know.

You're right, it would've been more accurate to just say "graduate" instead of "PhD", I'll edit it. I don't think I mentioned undergrads though.

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#40

So the plan is... >> Under the new GOP tax plan, however, those tuition waivers would be taxed as regular income... Sensationalist headlines aside... Why is this being targeted in the new tax plan? Usually I can find something with a quote from someone that explains.

The reason is to balance rate decreases at the top percentile, to decrease the corporate tax rate, and to finance lost revenues from dropping the estate tax. The rest of the reasons people state are needlessly obtuse or purposefully deceptive.

There’s one mathematical reason, it’s because this bill can not increase deficit past a certain amount, and so to balance giveaways to the rich we must demand more of every other income quintile.

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