The Great College Loan Swindle • Hacker News Board

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#61

Post by humanrebar » Sat, Nov 04, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #51

Overtonwindow wrote: post #15

Most scorn of universities and loan programs never seem to address a serious problem: Students taking on debt to fund degrees with little market value, or few job prospects. Racking up $100k to get an interdisciplinary degree in women and gender studies might sound awesome, but not at the cost of a school like NYU.[0] I think schools should be required to press upon students prior to taking out these loans honest and…

Interdisciplinary degree in women and gender studies are a minisculle percentage of all degrees out there. So is antropology. If you want to make the argument that students are mostly picking wrong degrees, make it with one that is actually prevalent. Not the one that is fashionable among rich kids you personally despise.

Meh. It's valid to pick an extreme example to make you point in a colorful way.

It undermines the idea that all four year college degrees are worth subsidized financing.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#62

Post by twoodfin » Sat, Nov 04, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

readams wrote: post #34

Because of government loan guarantees, the cost of tuition will eventually rise to match the entire net present value of the expected lifetime earnings premium. This could easily be in the millions. Also, we can expect income-based repayment to become the norm, since most will not be able to afford the payments

They aren’t just government loan guarantees any more: They’re government loans. The government has essentially taken over the undergraduate loan business.

I don’t think the political implications of a significant fraction of 23 year-olds owing $50,000+ to the Federal government have been fully thought through. For one, it’s a huge policy lever. We’ll forgive your loans or reduce your payments if...

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#63

Post by YaxelPerez » Sat, Nov 04, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

Clubber wrote: post #48

For kids preparing for college lucky enough to read these comments, and parents with kids preparing to go to college, consider this advice: 1. Always go in-state public funded college and university, it's much, much cheaper. In-state meaning the state the student is currently a resident. 2. If you must go out of state, make sure the student registers as a state resident after their first year (most states require a y…

UC still counts you as "out-of-state" even if you stay a year and become a California resident.

http://ucop.edu/residency/index.html

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#64

Post by jbump » Sat, Nov 04, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

Overtonwindow wrote: post #15

Most scorn of universities and loan programs never seem to address a serious problem: Students taking on debt to fund degrees with little market value, or few job prospects. Racking up $100k to get an interdisciplinary degree in women and gender studies might sound awesome, but not at the cost of a school like NYU.[0] I think schools should be required to press upon students prior to taking out these loans honest and…

but also, if every single student majored in computer science, the market value of that degree would plummet. it's not like everyone will be rich if everyone does the same thing. also, a society without variety would be a sad thing.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#65

Post by jbapple » Sat, Nov 04, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

imsofuture wrote: post #45

empath75 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the colleges should have some skin in the game and be at least partially on the hook if the loan defaults. That should prevent some of the completely egregious price gouging.

This is really the only path forward: make student debt dischargable. Yes, it will make less people go to college, but too many people going to college is clearly one of the root causes of cyclical skyrocketing costs and increased borrowing.

How would you prevent this causing increase in interest rates on student loans?

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#66

Post by plandis » Sat, Nov 04, 2017, 5:21 PM UTC

wolfgke wrote: post #26

Joe-Z wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can, but we're talking about 18-year-olds fresh out of high school here.

But the parents are surely not 18 years old and just out of highschool.

Neither of my parents went to college. I actually missed filling out FAFSA my first year because I didn’t even know it existed. I took the SAT late for a similar reason (I knew it existed but I though you take it your senior year of high school). The parents of first generation college attendees are ill equipped to help. Their advice was effectively go to some college at all costs.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#67

Post by Antimachides » Sat, Nov 04, 2017, 5:23 PM UTC

Overtonwindow wrote: post #15

Most scorn of universities and loan programs never seem to address a serious problem: Students taking on debt to fund degrees with little market value, or few job prospects. Racking up $100k to get an interdisciplinary degree in women and gender studies might sound awesome, but not at the cost of a school like NYU.[0] I think schools should be required to press upon students prior to taking out these loans honest and…

I agree students shouldn't be taking on the loans they do for worthless degrees but I'd like to add that 17/18 years old is just not old enough to (1) decide what you want to do for the rest of your life and (2) begin taking dozens of thousands of $ in bankruptcy-immune loans to pay for it. There's also the issue of the cost of college being an artificial grossly expensive racket. If the opportunity for moneyed interests to milk kids of every cent because of the kids' and parents' blind desire for collegiate status and opportunity then they will, because this is America.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#68

Post by wolfgke » Sat, Nov 04, 2017, 5:24 PM UTC

plandis wrote: post #66

wolfgke wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the parents are surely not 18 years old and just out of highschool.

Neither of my parents went to college. I actually missed filling out FAFSA my first year because I didn’t even know it existed. I took the SAT late for a similar reason (I knew it existed but I though you take it your senior year of high school). The parents of first generation college attendees are ill equipped to help. Their advice was effectively go to some college at all costs.

> Their advice was effectively go to some college at all costs.

If they advice this, they should put their money where their mouth is, i.e. be willing to pay for a substantial part of the college debt.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#69

Post by wskinner » Sat, Nov 04, 2017, 5:27 PM UTC

imsofuture wrote: post #45

empath75 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the colleges should have some skin in the game and be at least partially on the hook if the loan defaults. That should prevent some of the completely egregious price gouging.

This is really the only path forward: make student debt dischargable. Yes, it will make less people go to college, but too many people going to college is clearly one of the root causes of cyclical skyrocketing costs and increased borrowing.

How would reducing the costs of going to college drive down the number of people going to college?

To clarify what I mean: If student loan debt is dischargeable, that means that taking out a loan for college is actually less risky. We should expect more people to do it, not fewer.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#70

Post by opticalflow » Sat, Nov 04, 2017, 5:28 PM UTC

It's an interesting conundrum (for my family at least). My father was very highly educated (Professor Emeritus of semiconductor physics/EE at a major University, you've likely heard of it). I started out putting a couple of years in toward a BSCE at that same University, but I abandoned it because I already had work experience, and the BSCE was just a consolation prize -- the only value it would have had is if I was going to pursue a doctorate/academic career. That would have come with a prospect of a lot of student debt. As it turned out, I ended up in a career making more than a trauma surgeon, but without a mountain of $250K student loans. Today, I have 6 kids, and the two oldest are at the ages where they need to contemplate college. One definitely has their sights on University, the other is ambivalent. What I tell all of them is that there is nothing wrong with wanting to become an Electrician, Plumber, Pipefitter or any of the other work trades. All are worthy careers and can be very lucrative.