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The Great College Loan Swindle

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Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#41

Post by rayiner »

frank_nitti wrote: post #14
rayiner wrote: post #6

It’s interesting that the real perpetrators don’t get much of Taibbi’s scorn. The loan industry are just opportunists, and for the most part students loans have been taken over by the government anyway. The real criminals here are teachers, parents, and employers, who have created a culture where people are compelled to get completely unnecessary higher education. Here, you need a college degree to be an administrati…

I mean, the loan industry still does deserve scorn when they make loans that hurt society rather than help. They should at least strive to focus their efforts on deals where everybody wins, especially when the taxpayer is the one who foots the bill when they lose. I do agree that our education system is the most at fault, though I would make administrators as criminals before teachers. Administrators are the ones who…

> the loan industry still does deserve scorn when they make loans that hurt society rather than help. They should at least strive to focus their efforts on deals where everybody wins, especially when the taxpayer is the one who foots the bill when they lose.

Lenders don’t have a choice. Student loans are originated without regard to ability to repay. Indeed, today, lenders are just responsible for servicing and refinancing—the federal government handles all loan origination.

It’s the quintessentially American way of solving problems in the most expensive way possible. Instead of actually addressing social and racial injustices. we tell disadvantaged people to go to college and then make it illegal to deny them outrageous student loans on the basis of their financial ability to repay. The primary beneficiaries are, of course, the petit bourgeoisie—school professors, administrators, etc.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#42

Post by watwut »

wolfgke wrote: post #30
watwut wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoting the article: "Going to college doesn't guarantee a good job, far from it, but the data show that not going dooms most young people to an increasingly shallow pool of the very crappiest, lowest-paying jobs. There's a lot of stick, but not much carrot, in the education game. [...] the squeeze on the un-degreed grows tighter, increasing further that original negative incentive: Don't go to college, and you'll be…

> It is competitions and if you dont compete, you loose for sure. The wrong move in the game was in my opinion rather to give birth to children if you cannot afford their education.

The problem will he solved once there are no more young people. We already have less then two children per couple on average, so it is getting there.

Then again, if your logic makes you claim that majority of population is wrong for having children (including lower middle class and employed honest workers) then maybe the problem is elsewhere.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#43

Post by pinot »

KGIII wrote: post #38
readams wrote: post #34

Because of government loan guarantees, the cost of tuition will eventually rise to match the entire net present value of the expected lifetime earnings premium. This could easily be in the millions. Also, we can expect income-based repayment to become the norm, since most will not be able to afford the payments

I'm kind of fond of the idea of people paying a percentage of their income after they get their degree and for X number of years. I think that's a fantastic idea. For needed professions, it could be X - Y number of years. Inexpensive and attainable education would be a good thing, I should imagine.

The x-years and y-% could be based on their future earnings. A sort of tiered system with “marginal” rates. I wonder if such a system could exist.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#44

Post by bunderbunder »

wolfgke wrote: post #26
Joe-Z wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can, but we're talking about 18-year-olds fresh out of high school here.

But the parents are surely not 18 years old and just out of highschool.

The parents may be more experienced, but they are, for the most part, just as naive.

They grew up in a world where a bachelor's degree - any bachelor's degree - virtually guaranteed at least a middle class lifestyle, if not an upper middle class one. Many of them can't fathom the idea of graduating from college and then not being able to find a job that pays a living wage. Especially the ~2/3 of them who don't hold bachelor's degrees themselves.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#45

Post by imsofuture »

empath75 wrote: post #27
Overtonwindow wrote: post #15

Most scorn of universities and loan programs never seem to address a serious problem: Students taking on debt to fund degrees with little market value, or few job prospects. Racking up $100k to get an interdisciplinary degree in women and gender studies might sound awesome, but not at the cost of a school like NYU.[0] I think schools should be required to press upon students prior to taking out these loans honest and…

I think the colleges should have some skin in the game and be at least partially on the hook if the loan defaults. That should prevent some of the completely egregious price gouging.

This is really the only path forward: make student debt dischargable. Yes, it will make less people go to college, but too many people going to college is clearly one of the root causes of cyclical skyrocketing costs and increased borrowing.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#46

Post by wolfgke »

hkmurakami wrote: post #37
wolfgke wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the parents are surely not 18 years old and just out of highschool.

I mean this is why you have Asian immigrant parents insisting that the only acceptable areas of study are premed, prelaw, and (more recently) engineering. Some will refuse to pay for tuition unless their children agree. (I think there's a famous anecdote by Bobby Jindal where his father told him that he could be anything he wanted to be -- any kind of doctor that is) Heavy-handed? Yes. Effective? Also yes.

This is also the kind of environment that I am used to. Even though university education is mostly free in Germany, there are still costs of living etc. Thus there exist quite some children whose parents are quite hesitant to pay for the education of them if they don't agree with the degree course that the child chooses - even though by law they are typically required to pay.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#47

Post by wolfgke »

bunderbunder wrote: post #44
wolfgke wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the parents are surely not 18 years old and just out of highschool.

The parents may be more experienced, but they are, for the most part, just as naive. They grew up in a world where a bachelor's degree - any bachelor's degree - virtually guaranteed at least a middle class lifestyle, if not an upper middle class one. Many of them can't fathom the idea of graduating from college and then not being able to find a job that pays a living wage. Especially the ~2/3 of them who don't hold b…

> Many of them can't fathom the idea of graduating from college and then not being able to find a job that pays a living wage.

It is not only about finding a job (I believe with a "sensible" degree you will always find one), but about finding a job that pays well enough so that beside the costs of living (which are enormous in some regions) also the college debts can be paid back in a reasonable time.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#48

Post by Clubber »

For kids preparing for college lucky enough to read these comments, and parents with kids preparing to go to college, consider this advice:

1. Always go in-state public funded college and university, it's much, much cheaper. In-state meaning the state the student is currently a resident.

2. If you must go out of state, make sure the student registers as a state resident after their first year (most states require a year waiting period). This way, you only pay out-of-state tuition for a year. Generally out of state tuitions are 4x or so higher than in-state (it's been a while since I've examined this, so it might be higher or lower).

3. The cheapest path is to get your AA degree at in-state public community college, then your remaining 2 years at university. Not only is this cheaper, but this allows the student two years to decide their major after some realistic exposure to the various fields and what they pay.

4. Never attend private colleges without a scholarship, unless you are wealthy. There are two types of private colleges: old and new. The older colleges like Harvard, etc are expensive but bona fide, then new private colleges like ITT Tech, Trump university, etc are generally scammy schools that spend way more on marketing than education. Stay away from these at all costs, they are traps.

5. Make no mistake, a college education is a huge leg up in the marketplace for jobs. It's no guarantee, but not having one is much, much worse, and will be more so in the future. We live in a service economy, and service jobs require degrees for the most part.

6. If your field requires a Master's or Ph.D to be employed, that is a big red flag, and you should consider another field. This requirement generally means the field is supersaturated with applicants so much that employers can require an advanced degree for hiring and it's very difficult to not only land the first job, but also move to different employers. Remember, you have 40 years of work in your lifetime.

7. Outside of perhaps Ivy League, the college you attend doesn't matter. Employers generally want to check a box that says you've earned a degree in your relevant field and that's it.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#49

Post by ams6110 »

frank_nitti wrote: post #14
rayiner wrote: post #6

It’s interesting that the real perpetrators don’t get much of Taibbi’s scorn. The loan industry are just opportunists, and for the most part students loans have been taken over by the government anyway. The real criminals here are teachers, parents, and employers, who have created a culture where people are compelled to get completely unnecessary higher education. Here, you need a college degree to be an administrati…

I mean, the loan industry still does deserve scorn when they make loans that hurt society rather than help. They should at least strive to focus their efforts on deals where everybody wins, especially when the taxpayer is the one who foots the bill when they lose. I do agree that our education system is the most at fault, though I would make administrators as criminals before teachers. Administrators are the ones who…

You're right about the gratuitous overbuilding, administrative bloat and salaries, but at most schools athletics is a self-funding enterprise, via ticket sales, advertising and sponsorships, merchandise, and donations.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#50

Post by [deleted] »

imsofuture wrote: post #45
empath75 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the colleges should have some skin in the game and be at least partially on the hook if the loan defaults. That should prevent some of the completely egregious price gouging.

This is really the only path forward: make student debt dischargable. Yes, it will make less people go to college, but too many people going to college is clearly one of the root causes of cyclical skyrocketing costs and increased borrowing.

[deleted]
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