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I can no longer recommend MailChimp

grahamcluley.com

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Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#141

Post by hammock »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #126
rconti wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I even use the term "double opt-in" when ranting at companies that don't use it. I guess I'll switch terms to confirmed opt in, but I'd never heard of it until today, so I'd be careful with that brush.

If you were around and doing legit email newsletters 15 years ago or doing antispam configurations, the term was 'confirmed opt in' or 'verified opt in'. Email marketing firms schemed to use 'double opt in' to make it seem more onerous and draw attention away from the fact that 'single opt in' meant 'unverified opt in' that was vulnerable to email bombing utilities. Sadly, as the email marketing firms do most of the…

I'm curious, how does the law, for example in Germany where it is required, call double opt-in/confirmed opt-in?

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#142

Post by pixl97 »

Theodores wrote: post #13
seizeheures wrote: post #5

What reliable service should one use then? MailChimp is still pretty much the go-to option for me

How hard can it be to send an email? Why pay $$$ for it? For deliverability, which is pretty good on Mailchimp. However I think that send emails out using the gmail API or the Amazon SES might be the way to go. Also depends on what you are doing, I think that those that over analyse the mail openings are getting it wrong, focusing on the wrong metrics. You should be focused on the sales metrics not be navel gazing in…

>How hard can it be to send an email?

Are you serious? Sending an email is really easy. Actually having the remote deliver it to the remote mailbox is the problem.

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#143

Post by pixl97 »

snowwrestler wrote: post #116
jlgaddis wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Problem is, once the user filled up the contact form to make an enquiry, he is unlikely to go to his/her inbox to confirm... a subscription link. Or, worded another way: the user really doesn't give a damn about your subscription. If they can't be bothered enough to take a few seconds to open one e-mail message and click on a single link, then whatever you're offering obviously isn't something that they actually wa…

As a non-marketer, you presumably have not had the experience of customers being mad at you because they thought they signed up for something but never got it. Email marketing has got to be one of the top "HN readers are not like most people" subjects that get discussed here. Most people do not go through life in a defensive crouch about their email inbox. They sign up for things on a whim and then unsubscribe if the…

> customers being mad at you because they thought they signed up for something but never got it.

Yea, the customers never got it because 10 other people on your domain reported it as spam and the whole thing gets black flagged on the server and dropped at the SMTP connector.

This entire thread says one thing.

"Marketing emails are dead, Mailchimp is trying to boost their numbers so they can sell before everyone else realizes it"

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#144

Post by tmaly »

Nition wrote: post #32

From MailChimp's second post[1]: > More and more business owners are bringing up double opt-in. What they’ve been saying is that double opt-in is not an easy journey for their customers. Some go so far as to say that double opt-in is “broken.” I would go so far as to say if customers cannot be bothered clicking one confirmation link in an email, they didn't really care about your newsletters. [1] https://blog.mailchi…

I have to say I welcome the double opt-in. There have been too many purchases online where I was signed up for a newsletter I did not ask for.

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#146

Post by tinus_hn »

danielfoster wrote: post #59
Nition wrote: post #32

From MailChimp's second post[1]: > More and more business owners are bringing up double opt-in. What they’ve been saying is that double opt-in is not an easy journey for their customers. Some go so far as to say that double opt-in is “broken.” I would go so far as to say if customers cannot be bothered clicking one confirmation link in an email, they didn't really care about your newsletters. [1] https://blog.mailchi…

I used Mailchimp to collect email addresses for an beta user waitlist in 2015. I eventually used a work-around to disable double opt-in because so many users had signed up, never clicked the confirmation email, and were then confused why they never received access to our product when others had. As a user I also prefer single opt-in. If I sign up for something, I want to be signed up. Clicking confirmation links is a…

There is a guy who has a name similar to mine, who tends to enter my email address everywhere. So best case I just get his signup mails (multiple times because he doesn't understand why he doesn't get them). Worst case I'm signed up for yet another spam list.

They better not be complaining that their reputation is bad because I keep reporting their unconfirmed junk.

If clicking a link is too hard for you, tough.

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#147

Post by JohnTHaller »

hammock wrote: post #141
JohnTHaller wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were around and doing legit email newsletters 15 years ago or doing antispam configurations, the term was 'confirmed opt in' or 'verified opt in'. Email marketing firms schemed to use 'double opt in' to make it seem more onerous and draw attention away from the fact that 'single opt in' meant 'unverified opt in' that was vulnerable to email bombing utilities. Sadly, as the email marketing firms do most of the…

I'm curious, how does the law, for example in Germany where it is required, call double opt-in/confirmed opt-in?

Most pieces in English are using the terminology they use for other things. So, email marketers call it 'double opt in' and privacy activists and anti-spammers call it COI.

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#148

Post by wink »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #147
hammock wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, how does the law, for example in Germany where it is required, call double opt-in/confirmed opt-in?

Most pieces in English are using the terminology they use for other things. So, email marketers call it 'double opt in' and privacy activists and anti-spammers call it COI.

Anecdata: Have handled sign up forms with double opt-in for many companies in Germany for over 10 years and have never read "Confirmed opt-in", everyone uses "Double Opt-in" to mean "input email, get confirmation mail, no further emails sent until confirmation link clicked".

BTW, the German Wikipedia page lists the term, but the paragraph confuses me a little as it has it exactly backwards as was just mentioned:

"Das „Double-Opt-In-Verfahren“ ist vom „Confirmed Opt-in“ zu unterscheiden. Beim „Confirmed Opt-In“ wird an die eingetragene E-Mail eine Bestätigungs-Mail ohne Bestätigungslink geschickt. Der Verbraucher müsste dieser Mail widersprechen, um keine unerwünschte Werbung zu erhalten. Teilweise wird der Begriff von Spammern missbraucht. So nehmen manche Spammer in Anspruch, „Confirmed Opt-in“ zu betreiben, wenn ein neuer Empfänger eines Newsletter-Abonnements nach der Eintragung eine E-Mail zugeschickt bekommt, in der er auf das soeben getätigte Abonnement hingewiesen und davon in Kenntnis gesetzt wird, wie er das Abonnement wieder beenden kann."

(feel free to google translate the blurb, translation's ok)

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#149

Post by CodeWriter23 »

rlpb wrote: post #139
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might work against the primitive RBLs like SpamHaus, that rely on DNS-style blacklisting. In the world of carrier-grade email providers, they outsource spam scoring to one (or more) of a selection of about 3 vendors (Symantec, CloudMark come to mind). These systems also score against the sending domain, among a number of other factors. Source: my best friend is a lead engineer at a carrier-grade email provider.…

What exactly is a carrier-grade email provider?

ISPs/free email at scale (Gmail, etc). Think billions of messages per day. Or where the majority of any audience of an email list receives their email.

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#150

Post by InternetOfStuff »

Form a German perspective, that was a pretty close call.

As the article states, in places like Germany, double opt-in (or an equivalent) is mandated by the application of German (or even EU?) law.

If they had really gone through, they would have put their German users into a legally vulnerable position.

The rudeness of meddling with customers' settings notwithstanding, this kind of lapse is inexcusable from a company specialising in mailinglist delivery.

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