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I can no longer recommend MailChimp

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Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#41

Post by jlgaddis »

andyfleming wrote: post #27
jlgaddis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely it will. If you use MailChimp and care about deliverability, I would recommend you begin looking at alternatives (if you haven't already).

Don't most other providers already do single opt-in by default already anyway? Really, MailChimp is just sinking to their level. It's not all of the sudden worse than alternatives, right?

> Don't most other providers already do single opt-in by default already anyway?

Yes, most others have already switched to single opt-in.

> It's not all of the sudden worse than alternatives, right?

No, they aren't all of a sudden worse than the alternatives. They were already worse and they're certainly not going to improve as a result of this change.

I manage several e-mail servers and will be watching very closely -- even more so than usual -- the amount of spam coming from MailChimp. I usually start out by blacklisting individual IP addresses but if this becomes a big problem, I will simply blacklist them entirely and be done with it.

I've had two "incidents" in the last week or so with MailChimp that they have shown little interest in "fixing" (unrelated to this change) so I'm already inclined to do exactly that.

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#43

Post by vm »

makmanalp wrote: post #33
ungzd wrote: post #20

That is not problem of Mailchimp, it's problem of culture and "best practices". It's really annoying and it became annoying long before this change. I receive lots of such emails not only from Mailchimp. At least Mailchimp has one-click unsubscribing, most custom-built mailing list systems don't have it, requiring to log in or just not working. The problem with Mailchimp is: - Spam filters work mediocre, despite AI h…

> most custom-built mailing list systems don't have it, requiring to log in or just not working Does this violate CAN-SPAM? https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/can... > You can’t ... make the recipient take any step other than sending a reply email or visiting a single page on an Internet website as a condition for honoring an opt-out request

LinkedIn has been one of the most infuriating CAN-SPAM violators for years. So many startups do too. "Growth hacking" is probably a net negative to society based on all the spam it produces.

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#44

Post by derefr »

synicalx wrote: post #34

Honest question here, does anyone actually want to receive newsletters? I don't think I've ever set foot in the 'Promotions' tab in my Gmail account, other than to delete everything in it.

Some of my favourite "blogs" are only available in the form of e-mail newsletters. patio11's post-BingoCardCreator blog, for example, only existed as a newsletter (with non-indexed webpage alternates) for the longest time—though I see that there's now an index (http://www.kalzumeus.com/archive/), complete with RSS meta-tag.

In other cases, newsletters can serve as a sort of low-volume link aggregator. I'm subscribed to the http://elixirdose.com newsletter and end up with a few Elixir-related articles to read each month.

In other cases, it's just fun to follow regular company newsletters, because those companies are essentially soap operas in progress. The http://zenmagnets.com newsletter is 90% about their ongoing legal battle against the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

And, every once in a while, I appreciate getting informed that a product/service I've built something on top of—but which I'm not actively building on right now (i.e. I pay them money every month, but I never go to their website)—has new features, which might inspire me to build something else on them. I like getting announcement emails from {AWS, DigitalOcean, Twilio, etc.} for this reason.

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#45

Post by CodeWriter23 »

stefan69 wrote: post #26
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the short term, probably more revenue. But once they race to the bottom of deliverability rates (like SES, for example), MailChimp will forever have lost it’s major defining feature: emails that actually make it to the inbox.

I suspect they would use different IP addresses for deliverability depending on a single or double opt-in subscription in order to manage that risk. That would be the sensible think to do at least.

That might work against the primitive RBLs like SpamHaus, that rely on DNS-style blacklisting.

In the world of carrier-grade email providers, they outsource spam scoring to one (or more) of a selection of about 3 vendors (Symantec, CloudMark come to mind). These systems also score against the sending domain, among a number of other factors. Source: my best friend is a lead engineer at a carrier-grade email provider.

And playing whack-a-mole with changing sending domains is ill advised as that will lose the benefit of any whitelisting occurring client side.

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#46

Post by tomc1985 »

I wish there was a non-consentual way to force businesses to continue needed products and services. The narrative lately (especially here on HN) has been seemingly nothing but firms watering down --if not sunsetting-- valued products and services for their own seemingly selfish ends.

"Business isn't charity" -- maybe it should be. At the least we'd get more service-oriented folks in charge, instead of the current crop of profiteering assholes that infest these lands.

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#47

Post by jlgaddis »

stefan69 wrote: post #23

As a marketer, one of the issues I run into is to subscribe someone, who filled a contact form on my website, to an email automation series (usually to nudge them towards taking an extra action while we scramble to get back to them). Problem is, once the user filled up the contact form to make an enquiry, he is unlikely to go to his/her inbox to confirm... a subscription link. I do think double opt-in is the way forw…

> Problem is, once the user filled up the contact form to make an enquiry, he is unlikely to go to his/her inbox to confirm... a subscription link.

Or, worded another way: the user really doesn't give a damn about your subscription.

If they can't be bothered enough to take a few seconds to open one e-mail message and click on a single link, then whatever you're offering obviously isn't something that they actually want.

As a non-marketer, it seems to me that marketers would want something like double opt-in -- just so that you can ensure that those on your list are people actually interested in $product. Or is it more about the quantity of users on your list and not the quality of those users?

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#48

Post by joejev »

synicalx wrote: post #34

Honest question here, does anyone actually want to receive newsletters? I don't think I've ever set foot in the 'Promotions' tab in my Gmail account, other than to delete everything in it.

I get newsletters for a few music labels to see their new releases. I also get announcements for local music shows.

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#49

Post by Frondo »

synicalx wrote: post #34

Honest question here, does anyone actually want to receive newsletters? I don't think I've ever set foot in the 'Promotions' tab in my Gmail account, other than to delete everything in it.

Yep. I receive newsletters from several merchants whose stuff I regularly buy. I like getting coupons and information about new products. This is stuff like coffee and chocolate, mostly foodstuffs that I consume regularly.

I delete most of them after reading, act on maybe 1 in 4.

I'd be very surprised if my behavior here was atypical for consumer behavior.

Re: I can no longer recommend MailChimp

#50

Post by CaptSpify »

kadfak wrote: post #22

I recently set up a mail server with DKIM, SPF, DMARC configured correctly. After spending a day fighting with major email services to not mark my emails as spam, I really saw the value of email service providers. But the damn prices... Are there any alternatives to traditional email that could potentially replace it in the near future?

I find that odd as after I set up my email server I haven't had any issues. I'm not trying to discredit your experience, but I just never had that issue myself. Is it possible that you've got an IP that was previously used for spam?
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