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The concept of schizophrenia is dying

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Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#121

Post by chris_wot »

nnfy wrote: post #102
chris_wot wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not fear mongering. The Lancet published an article about continued and discontinued use of cannabis after psychosis. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-03... But it states that there is a well established link between cannabis and psychosis.

No, this is disingenuous fear mongering. The article you linked examines psychosis outcomes after quitting marijuana. It does not show evidence that psychosis is caused by marijuana. In fact, the article is similarly misleading, as it makes reference to two studies which show, in the article's words, a "link" between psychosis and cannibus use. However, the two articles cited for this assertion [0][1] similarly only…

I’m hardly spreading potentially misleading information. There is actually a wide body of evidence that amongst certain people cannabis can cause psychosis. It’s far more harmful in that your sole reference is a fairly partisan Wikipedia article. Give me primary sources, don’t give me a tertiary source like Wikipedia.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#122

Post by LyndsySimon »

phkahler wrote: post #87
coldtea wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freud was a misogyn and a drug addict, and he proposed a lot of theories that leave modern people scratching their heads. All three are totally orthogonal to someone being a genius -- and at least the second is a very puritan concern to level at someone regarding their contributions to science/culture/etc. > Eg he attributed almost all mental problems to sexuality And a heck of a lot (of the soft kind, not physiolo…

>> >coined the ridiculous Oedipus complex >> Nothing ridiculous about it Except that Freud suffered from it himself - he had a thing for his own mother - and then projected his shame onto patients to such an extent that he thought it was the foundation of everyones problems. The challenge with analysis is that it needs to be done by the patient. Only they can see/hear whats going on in their head.

> The challenge with analysis is that it needs to be done by the patient. Only they can see/hear whats going on in their head.

Based on my limited personal experience as a patient, this is quite insightful.

No medication could solve my issues with depression. What did turn my life around was when I was finally able to get a hold on the cycles that my mind goes through on a regular basis and terminate the feedback loop that leads to despondency for me. Counseling was only useful for me in that it allowed me to consult with someone with much more experience in the field to make sure my own observations of self matched the outward reality.

In my early twenties I believe I experienced a taste of what schizophrenia is, although I was never diagnosed with it. My mind would make connections between ideas that seemed extremely important at the time, but between which no connections actually existed. I developed a habit of taking notes when I get excited about an idea and then going back in a day or two to review them to see if it still makes sense. In the vast majority of cases they don't.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#123

Post by LyndsySimon »

jwdunne wrote: post #7
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #2

I would argue that the indications of schizophrenia being associated with weed is ascribing a causative effect to a correlation. Weed doesn’t increase your chances of schizophrenia unless you already had something that would tilt you in that direction in the first place, from my experience. I would say I do agree that schizophrenia probably needs to be broken up; it was merely a collection of symptoms to begin with t…

There exists cannabis psychosis. Naturally, more psychosis will exacerbate a psychotic illness. It usually brings it on earlier and heavier in severity i.e typically schizophrenia presents later but cannabis usage in adolescents seems to trigger it. The same is true for amphetamine. Interestingly, amphetamine has been hypothesised as a chemical model for schizophrenia. Amphetamine psychosis is extremely similar to th…

> There exists cannabis psychosis.

As far as I can tell, this is not generally accepted as true. At best, there is a statistical association between cannabis use in children/young adults and the later development of psychoses. As we all know, "correlation is not causation" - it may well be that those who are more likely to develop psychosis are also more likely to use cannabis and other psychoactive substances to excess.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#124

Post by LyndsySimon »

gscott wrote: post #14
tcj_phx wrote: post #8

I think a good case can be made that many of these "mental disorders" are actually metabolic problems. There are many causes behind an individual's metabolic problem that leads to schizophrenia/dementia/psychosis/(edit3: depression)/etc... Sometimes people are malnourished. The B-vitamins are important cofactors for metabolic activity. An old/new treatment for "schizophrenia" is Vitamin B3 [0]. My girlfriend's treatm…

Doctors are only allowed to give medications that treat a certain disorder. Experimental herbal treatments are not going to resolve a real mental disorder... you can try some vitamins but no medical professional is going to stake their medical license on it. Both of my parents had schizophrenia and it was a real hell.

> Doctors are only allowed to give medications that treat a certain disorder.

Is this true, particularly in the US?

My understanding is that a doctor can prescribe basically whatever they want as long as they believe that "in their professional opinion" the potential benefit outweighs the potential harm.

It's certainly common for doctors to prescribe medication "off-label" to treat conditions for which the medication is not approved by the FDA. I don't see how prescribing a specific vitamin in an attempt to impact a mental disorder is any different from, say, prescribing modafinil for ADHD?

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#125

Post by [deleted] »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #122
phkahler wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> >coined the ridiculous Oedipus complex >> Nothing ridiculous about it Except that Freud suffered from it himself - he had a thing for his own mother - and then projected his shame onto patients to such an extent that he thought it was the foundation of everyones problems. The challenge with analysis is that it needs to be done by the patient. Only they can see/hear whats going on in their head.

> The challenge with analysis is that it needs to be done by the patient. Only they can see/hear whats going on in their head. Based on my limited personal experience as a patient, this is quite insightful. No medication could solve my issues with depression. What did turn my life around was when I was finally able to get a hold on the cycles that my mind goes through on a regular basis and terminate the feedback loo…

[deleted]

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#126

Post by gscott »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #124
gscott wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors are only allowed to give medications that treat a certain disorder. Experimental herbal treatments are not going to resolve a real mental disorder... you can try some vitamins but no medical professional is going to stake their medical license on it. Both of my parents had schizophrenia and it was a real hell.

> Doctors are only allowed to give medications that treat a certain disorder. Is this true, particularly in the US? My understanding is that a doctor can prescribe basically whatever they want as long as they believe that "in their professional opinion" the potential benefit outweighs the potential harm. It's certainly common for doctors to prescribe medication "off-label" to treat conditions for which the medication…

It is true a Dr could in theory do what they want to but there are treatment guidelines and if they vary off that too much then the medical board could get after them. This happens I know a Doctor who wanted to treat lymes disease for patients and the medical board didn't like that it seems she was experimenting with what would work to treat it (this was about 15 years ago when it was pretty new).

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#127

Post by oolaf »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #122
phkahler wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> >coined the ridiculous Oedipus complex >> Nothing ridiculous about it Except that Freud suffered from it himself - he had a thing for his own mother - and then projected his shame onto patients to such an extent that he thought it was the foundation of everyones problems. The challenge with analysis is that it needs to be done by the patient. Only they can see/hear whats going on in their head.

> The challenge with analysis is that it needs to be done by the patient. Only they can see/hear whats going on in their head. Based on my limited personal experience as a patient, this is quite insightful. No medication could solve my issues with depression. What did turn my life around was when I was finally able to get a hold on the cycles that my mind goes through on a regular basis and terminate the feedback loo…

When and how did the behavior described in your last paragraph end?

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#128

Post by panacea »

Sacho wrote: post #57
panacea wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother got heavily into weed at a young age (15-16). He developed strong schizophrenia. Was medicated which helped him, but went off the meds, left his wife, and died falling off a train that he was graffiting.

And you attribute this development to the weed because correlation is causation?

Well... both. But you're right.
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