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The concept of schizophrenia is dying

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Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#91

Post by RHSman2 »

panacea wrote: post #47
mattmanser wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a load of crap. My home town was in the middle of nowhere and a port. A lot of people I know experimented. Like 50 people in the periphery of friends etc. And hundreds of people in the years above and below. Never heard of a single one that had problems. 50%? You're ignorant and alarmist.

My brother got heavily into weed at a young age (15-16). He developed strong schizophrenia. Was medicated which helped him, but went off the meds, left his wife, and died falling off a train that he was graffiting.

Weed (THC) can trigger mental episodes in those with a propensity for it. Sorry to hear that.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#92

Post by RHSman2 »

stephengillie wrote: post #56
RHSman2 wrote: post #15

I’d suggest that not taking a drug (weed/lsd/mushrooms) that alter ones perceptions of our very existence is a good way of staying mentally sound. If you take ten 16 yr olds, allow them to experiment, 1-2 will drop off the world, 2-3 will have major, life changing changes to the way they view life (border line changes in said spectrum) and the rest handle it fine although with a significant change in lifestyle. As so…

Could you be more descriptive about the "close call" you had "with the boundaries of perception"? I've been using cannabis daily for over a decade to be a normal person, having found that it removes my anxiety, and allows me to operate as a normal individual in society. When I am not using, I become a terrible anxious mess who can't even talk to clerks in stores. Also your last sentence seems incomplete - did you int…

Took drugs. Got scared about my mental health as my thoughts were very powerful. Others around suffered worse which compounded fact. I was very, very lucky to have survived and have turned that experience into knowledge (which has only come in the last year after 20 years).

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#93

Post by hutzlibu »

RHSman2 wrote: post #85
hutzlibu wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Weed (etc.) can not be healthy "for fitting into normal, standard life". But there is a different view to it, than just claiming "drugs are bad". Because there are quite some people claiming, that a "normal, standard life" with a 9 to 5 job and bounded by many weird social customs in a hectic enviroment which very often rewards lying and assholeness - is in itself not healthy. And some drugs can enable peopl…

I don't disagree BUT there is a cost with consumption In My Opinion. p.s. I was part of the ten 16 yr olds. I am very aware of how far it can go.

For sure there is a cost. But there is a cost with everything.

And I know that it can go very far. And also very far down. Actually I have to deal with exactly that right now. Someone who started of dreaming of a better world, but now reduced to a lying, selfish asshole, who now only cares, on how to sneak money out of people around him, so he can continue doing nothing and smoke his last brain cells out, while blaming everyone else. No wonder this person developed a heavy psychosis. So I know of the dangers.

But still, this person is an excemption, because otherwise allmost everyone I know of my generation, smoked weed (or more) at some point, got new experience of it or just had fun - and now lives a ordinary life.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#94

Post by nradov »

ivkustov wrote: post #52
nradov wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a man who was wrong about almost everything can be considered a genius then the word "genius" has lost all meaning.

I don't know how he was 'wrong about almost everything'? I just searched the article with the same name. Penis envy? Well, I saw myself and read myself about women who desired to castrate their brothers for example because they attributed their envy and jealousy of parental attention to them. Oedipus issues? Seriously? I believe every other mother or father out there in emotionally incestous relationships with their…

I really hope you're being sarcastic, and that you're not deranged enough to believe that nonsense.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#95

Post by nradov »

dredmorbius wrote: post #62
nradov wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a man who was wrong about almost everything can be considered a genius then the word "genius" has lost all meaning.

There are dimensions to genius. Seeing a common subject, a set of boundaries, a possible (even if incorrect) set of guiding principles, can be genius. If it inspires further exploration or refinement or even rejection of ideas, it's a productive step. Einstein railed against QM, Newton believed in alchemy, Kelvin though the Earth was 30 million years old, the list of people opposed to continental drift / plate techto…

The scientists you listed at least attempted to follow the scientific method as best they could in most of their professional work (although they certainly made their share of methodological errors and allowed personal biases to affect their work). Whereas most of Freud's writing was the moral equivalent of astrology: based mostly on random anecdotes and not falsifiable. Hardly equivalent.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#96

Post by ionised »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #59
stephengillie wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you be more descriptive about the "close call" you had "with the boundaries of perception"? I've been using cannabis daily for over a decade to be a normal person, having found that it removes my anxiety, and allows me to operate as a normal individual in society. When I am not using, I become a terrible anxious mess who can't even talk to clerks in stores. Also your last sentence seems incomplete - did you int…

The problem with cannabis is its extreme variance of effects. Some people like yourself seem to have very positive effects. Myself, I've consumed a whole wack of different drugs including the usual psychedelics plus various dissociatives over the years and cannabis is easily the most unpleasant in its effects on me. Paranoia, very unpleasant thoughts and paranoia, sad feeling, accentuated body pain (I have chronic ba…

> Myself, I've consumed a whole wack of different drugs including the usual psychedelics plus various dissociatives over the years and cannabis is easily the most unpleasant in its effects on me.

I'm the same.

Cannabis is easily the most unpleasant drug for me these days (don't do them so much anymore though). It just gives me paranoia and anxiety and makes me totally unable to hold a conversation or even relax.

Compare that with LSD, MDMA, DMT where I generally have positive experiences. The only bad ones I've had are when I've foolishly taken them when not in the best of moods.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#97

Post by ionised »

gkya wrote: post #32
mattmanser wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate seeing utter lies like this in any debate. It's propaganda and I react strongly to it. Claiming 50% of teenagers smoking weed , let alone lsd, will have problems is an utter, out-right lie. I was never into drugs like friends, if that's what you're insinuating. I tried a few, but beer was my drug of choice, and nicotine for a while. There are polls where something like 40-50% of UK teenagers (and probably US)…

Yeah whatever you don't like is evil fearmongering. And they don't even say trying it will drive you nuts.

Quoting obviously nonsense statistics in this case seems like fear-mongering to me.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#98

Post by ionised »

panacea wrote: post #47
mattmanser wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a load of crap. My home town was in the middle of nowhere and a port. A lot of people I know experimented. Like 50 people in the periphery of friends etc. And hundreds of people in the years above and below. Never heard of a single one that had problems. 50%? You're ignorant and alarmist.

My brother got heavily into weed at a young age (15-16). He developed strong schizophrenia. Was medicated which helped him, but went off the meds, left his wife, and died falling off a train that he was graffiting.

I'm not going to claim that weed has absolutely no downsides like some recreational use fanatics, but I'm going to suggest that he was predisposed to mental illness with or without the weed.

Though it did probably exacerbate it.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#99

Post by hnarn »

coldtea wrote: post #68
hnarn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take this however you want, but I know that a significant source of anxiety for me when I tried weed was the severeness of the consequences if I had been caught. I'm not sure about "the boundaries of perception", from what I remember weed didn't alter my reality much more than getting really drunk does. I don't think it's helpful to put cannabis in the same baket as literally hallucinogenic substances like LSD or "ma…

> a significant source of anxiety for me when I tried weed was the severeness of the consequences if I had been caught. In most of the civilized western world (EU etc), usually not even a slap on the wrist.

I'm from a country in the EU and I can tell you that in 99% of EU states (The Netherlands excluded), having cannabis on your person will not entail "a slap on the wrist". Sweden, like another commenter mentioned, is very strict. Also, your exclusion of Poland is borderline ignorant.

On that topic, few things is more irritating than reading a high-nosed comment telling you that "actually, in the EU/civilized world..." as if you were american when you're not and you do actually live in that fantasy land you're being lectured about. It happens a lot these days.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#100

Post by dredmorbius »

nradov wrote: post #95
dredmorbius wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are dimensions to genius. Seeing a common subject, a set of boundaries, a possible (even if incorrect) set of guiding principles, can be genius. If it inspires further exploration or refinement or even rejection of ideas, it's a productive step. Einstein railed against QM, Newton believed in alchemy, Kelvin though the Earth was 30 million years old, the list of people opposed to continental drift / plate techto…

The scientists you listed at least attempted to follow the scientific method as best they could in most of their professional work (although they certainly made their share of methodological errors and allowed personal biases to affect their work). Whereas most of Freud's writing was the moral equivalent of astrology: based mostly on random anecdotes and not falsifiable. Hardly equivalent.

That is not the original criticism you raised, nor is it the one I addressed.
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