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Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

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Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#141

Post by kstrauser »

KGIII wrote: post #81
sighwhatnow wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, they still deserve to express themselves freely. Um, why. What makes you think this. If someone's opinions are stupid and abhorrent, why should they not experience an immediate and firm response, in ban-hammer form. Why do you want to give ignorant idiots a platform to spread their ignorant idiocy to other ignorant idiots (and e.g. provoke easily influenced mentally ill idiots who might want to drive cars into…

Because we as a society have decided even the least among us deserve a base amount of human rights and freedoms and those aren't taken away without due process in a just society. I don't expect to change your mind. It's okay. I'm just really, really pro human rights. I've seen places with massive deprivations of rights. That's not okay.

This is what I wrote about content I allow on my Mastodon server: https://blog.freeradical.zone/welcome-to-my-living-room/

In summary, I totally defend your right to say anything you want, however abhorrent. But if I'm hosting your content - especially when you're not paying me to do so - then I have a right to decide what I'll allow you to say from the platform I own. Your words reflect both on you and me.

I would never support a law like "Nazis can't post stuff on the Internet". I absolutely, 100% support a private organization's right to say "say what you want, but we're not going to help you".

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#142

Post by vaishaksuresh »

Chaebixi wrote: post #121
vaishaksuresh wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem is: where will the line be drawn? Intolerance, you draw the line at Intolerance. If BLM, PETA, Antifa want people of other race/class/sexual orientation harmed in any kind of way, sure go ahead and ban them. If on the other hand they want fair treatment, equality or reprieve from targeted brutality, listen to them and see how we as a society can address their concern. If they resort to violence, arrest t…

> Intolerance, you draw the line at Intolerance. That doesn't work. There are lots of people who are extremely intolerant to people who hold views that weren't very controversial a decade or two ago and are still widely held today; case in point, Brendan Eich (and the intolerant campaign that got him fired). "Unacceptable intolerance" is something that can have very different definitions from one person to the next,…

I don't want to argue about this on HN, because I don't think this is the right forum. You can argue all you want about how X was discriminated for having Y opinion and how it was not alright. I may agree with you on some instances, however, under no circumstance is is alright to:

1) Own another person 2) Discriminate based on something that people have no control over. Like race, sexual orientation, Gender etc. 3) Exploit somebody's helplessness for your profit.

No matter what age you grew up in, modern society has no place for such ideas. There may be other things that are debatable or in the gray area, but Nazi ideology isn't one of them.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#143

Post by kstrauser »

briantakita wrote: post #61
KGIII wrote: post #6

It's really, really not easy to stand up for the rights of Nazis. If you're a Nazi, you can use voat.co as they are very free speech oriented. You don't have to be a Nazi to participate, but it's a good idea to have a thick skin if you do go there. I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. They know I'm not white and that I don't agree with them. They don't scare me. They are scared a…

> I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. Nazi is a term loosely used today. Actual 3rd Reich Nazis commandeered by America & the Soviet Union after WW2. Wernher von Braun was a committed Nazi & was allegedly a willing participate in WW2 war crimes. See Operation Paperclip for more info. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Operation_Paperclip > They are scared and powerless, looking for mea…

> Nazi is a term loosely used today.

Not by me. When I say Nazi, I specifically mean someone who publicly identifies with that group, uses their words, wears their clothes, and carries their flag: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/09/alt-weaken...

If you show up to a rally carrying a Nazi flag, I'll unapologetically call you a Nazi. It's only identity politics in the sense that I'm identifying the politics someone espouses based on the symbols and words they're using.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#144

Post by kstrauser »

jquery wrote: post #128
rodgerd wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A loud group of HN users are, apparently, very very sympathetic to the wellbeing of violent racists.

I haven't seen any sympathy for Antifa on HN.

In your opinion, are Antifa racists?

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#145

Post by KirinDave »

jquery wrote: post #126
KirinDave wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a more complicated story, I think. But North Korea and pre-Stalin Communist Russia are not regarded as "successful" and Post-Stalin Russia is reasonably rejected as a tenable example of leftism. Cuba, I think, is looked upon more favorably now than when it was more centrally managed?

Is "not real communism" still the go-to counterpoint? Can we excuse the failures of Nazism and fascism by saying they weren't real fascism? I don't think so. Judge political ideologies by their results, not their lofty intentions.

The failure of Communist Russia was in losing power to someone who used fundamentist rhetoric to sieze power and then subvert that system.

Stalin's late Russia was something quite different from where it started. In much the same fashion that we recognize China's form of government fundamentally changed TO Communism we can recognize that it lost hold.

And if you need a source of negative propaganda about Communist government, look no further than China. A sexual harassment crisis it's illegal to talk about, systemic religious and ethnic persecution, a 2 tiered oligarchic economic system, dark but weighty rumors of involuntary organ harvesting... You name it, they got it, where "it" is bad outcomes.

I'm always surprised that there aren't more proponents of modern, IT-informed government systems in our community.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#146

Post by jquery »

libertyEQ wrote: post #133
jquery wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which political views would those be? Most of the politically-incited violence of the past few years has been left-wing. From Antifa, to the Berkeley riots, to the BLM riots (and BLM-inspired cop executions in Houston), and the "Bernie-bro" attempted assassination.

It was Dallas, not Houston. >Most of the politically-incited violence of the past few years has been left-wing. Is this claim based on data or anecdotes?

From the WITS - https://imgur.com/a/nE1of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_Incidents_Tracking_S...

If you know a good replacement, please let me know. That's worldwide data, but even using worldwide data, there just aren't that many violent Nazis out there.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#147

Post by KirinDave »

zanny wrote: post #119
KirinDave wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe take it as a mark of grim respect. Far left and anarchist groups are generally considered to be unsuccessful in the arc of modern history, with even China partially adopting western aspects of governance to remain competitive. Their successes are almost entirely in appealing to moderates and with heavy appeasement of capitalism. One of the most famous attempt at true communism ended spectacularly, with a bulk v…

I had to do a double take that the KirinDave talking about politics on HN is the same one I watched years back play and manage a Minecraft server with the Yogscast. What a small world!

Yeah I used to make modpacks for them. It got boring. But I do still stream Minecraft irregularly.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#148

Post by Thisisdense »

mozumder wrote: post #124
Wellshit wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a hard, deep and pondered look at what you wrote.

I love that there are people that think of Nazis as an academic expression group, instead of as a militant organization. These people have NO idea...

Wellshit here, got silenced by HN...

They advocate for violence against a group of people and are banned.

You advocate for violence against their group.

Is your violence better than theirs? Why shouldn't you be banned?

Disclaimer: not a nazi

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#149

Post by briantakita »

kstrauser wrote: post #143
briantakita wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. Nazi is a term loosely used today. Actual 3rd Reich Nazis commandeered by America & the Soviet Union after WW2. Wernher von Braun was a committed Nazi & was allegedly a willing participate in WW2 war crimes. See Operation Paperclip for more info. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Operation_Paperclip > They are scared and powerless, looking for mea…

> Nazi is a term loosely used today. Not by me. When I say Nazi, I specifically mean someone who publicly identifies with that group, uses their words, wears their clothes, and carries their flag: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/09/alt-weaken... If you show up to a rally carrying a Nazi flag, I'll unapologetically call you a Nazi. It's only identity politics in the sense that I'm identifying the politi…

> If you show up to a rally carrying a Nazi flag, I'll unapologetically call you a Nazi

Maybe I need to get out more, but I've never seen a person carrying a Nazi flag, nor have I seen an actual person with any swastika gear; other than a Jew who had a Buddhist painting with a row of Swastikas. I looked at the flag in Charlottesville & it looked quite new (still had creases). Also the man carrying the flag looked nothing like your typical Neo-Nazi. It's also interesting that this person was not doxxed.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that this person was a paid agitator. There has been cases where people fake KKK vandalism.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/10/2...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrew-mcclinton-arrested-in-bu...

But who knows. Maybe we have an epidemic of Nazis (& KKK) in the United States. If there is, wouldn't there be Nazis marching in the streets every week or so in every state?

If anybody benefits from this Neo-Nazi scare, it's the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), who rakes in Hundreds of Millions of Dollars peddling fear; while transferring Millions to offshore accounts...

http://freebeacon.com/issues/southern-poverty-law-center-tra...

> It's only identity politics in the sense that I'm identifying the politics someone espouses based on the symbols and words they're using.

Is this similar to how Antifa attacks supporters of the evil Yamika wearing "Nazi" Ben Shapiro in Berkeley?

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#150

Post by [deleted] »

briantakita wrote: post #149
kstrauser wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nazi is a term loosely used today. Not by me. When I say Nazi, I specifically mean someone who publicly identifies with that group, uses their words, wears their clothes, and carries their flag: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/09/alt-weaken... If you show up to a rally carrying a Nazi flag, I'll unapologetically call you a Nazi. It's only identity politics in the sense that I'm identifying the politi…

> If you show up to a rally carrying a Nazi flag, I'll unapologetically call you a Nazi Maybe I need to get out more, but I've never seen a person carrying a Nazi flag, nor have I seen an actual person with any swastika gear; other than a Jew who had a Buddhist painting with a row of Swastikas. I looked at the flag in Charlottesville & it looked quite new (still had creases). Also the man carrying the flag looked not…

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