This person needs to get immediate professional help on several levels (mental, legal, family counseling). He is a train wreck for his family.
No, of that I'm innocent
101–110 of 190 posts
Re: No, of that I'm innocent
#102why would a series of soldiers all attack the same city? because at some point, they needed money and direction and were told what to do by someone else.
you're all idiots.
Re: No, of that I'm innocent
#103Without making any moral judgments here, the guy has a valid point in that it's important to make a distinction between cheating in a relationship and sexual harassment. The former is a non-illegal, personal matter, and the latter is a criminal matter. I think most people probably aren't interested in making this distinction and would prefer to indiscriminately shun either kind of person, but this the importance of t…
Lots of sexual harassment is not criminal. (It's still, obviously, no acceptable).
My problem now, what makes me irate, is that the #metoo tag embodies this idea that, because so many women have been silent victims of harassment and assault, that any claim to harassment or assault somehow must be trustworthy because it is being openly stated.
I was listening to a program on NPR the other day, and the guest was somehow bemoaning the fact that when individuals make claims of being victimized, they are met with a reserved skepticism rather than accepting support.
What was totally missing from this discussion--what the host failed to challenge on--was that what this guest was proposing in fact was abandoning an innocent until proven guilty assumption in favor of a guilty until proven innocent assumption, which is dangerous and immoral. It is appropriate to be skeptical, because such a claim is very serious and potentially damaging. And such claims should be held up to rigorous scrutiny. I say this not without empathy for victims, being a victim of sexual assault myself, but as someone who has also seen how vicious and destructive these witchhunts can be.
I have a colleague who was wrongly accused of sexual assault (I know because I was essentially there and saw what actually transpired), and I've seen how completely destructive it can be personally and career-wise.
I also have been accused, through not-so-veiled insinuations (of course, not being explicit allowed her to sidestep any challenges, because there's nothing to actually challenge), of harassment by a vindictive ex who was jealous of my new relationship, and have seen what happens when colleagues, who you thought were friends, blindly accept these sorts of claims without looking into both sides of the story.
It's horrifying to watch this happen, and to me only undermines real victims by casting a shadow of doubt over their claims from others.
My experience is that this issue is far darker than anyone wants to acknowledge, and as much as there is problems with sexual assault, there are also problems with vindictive slander capitalizing on people's prejudices, to avoid personal responsibility. The horrific stories of Harvey Weinstein have turned into a witch-hunt against men that is equally horrifying en masse.
Re: No, of that I'm innocent
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have an actual point relating to what I said? Yes, courts were and continue to be sexist. I never argued against that, and I don't see how it is at all relevant to this conversation at this point. If you are a public figure, and you never sexually assaulted anyone, yet multiple people were accusing you in public of doing so, how (if at all) would you defend yourself?
Sue them for libel. As a public figure, I am almost certainly able to bear the burdens of protracted litigation then they are. (It's one of the reasons why people think twice about accusing the guilty.)
From "Elements of Libel and Slander"[1]
> First, the plaintiff must prove that the defendant made a false and defamatory statement concerning the plaintiff.
How do you prove that you didn't sexually assault someone 5 years ago? Gee, a recording of all of your interactions would come in handy here.
[1] http://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and-personal-injuries/elemen...
Re: No, of that I'm innocent
#105> I don’t have employees, I don’t cut checks for investment. None of the women who came forward were ever in a position where I could make or break their careers. Sexual Harassment requires that I have such power. This is an incredibly disgusting and miss-guided view of sexual harassment.
Eh. I think everyone agrees power imbalance is a crucial part of capital letters Sexual Harassment. We know people can be assholes to each other at any point, but we pay particular attention to people in positions of power over others. Setting aside power imbalances of physical nature (i.e. alone in an elevator), I think he's mostly accurate? Unwelcome advances in a situation where there is little possibility of harm…
From other posts in this thread I gather he's accused, among other things, of groping women without their consent, which, if true, goes a bit beyond making an "unwelcome advance," in my opinion. Whether it's true I don't claim to know, but responding to it by talking about how it technically does not constitute sexual harassment seems ill advised either way.
Re: No, of that I'm innocent
#106>I don’t have employees, I don’t cut checks for investment. None of the women who came forward were ever in a position where I could make or break their careers. Sexual Harassment requires that I have such power.
Not a great sign to open your defense by arguing about definitions rather than factual claims.
Re: No, of that I'm innocent
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sue them for libel. As a public figure, I am almost certainly able to bear the burdens of protracted litigation then they are. (It's one of the reasons why people think twice about accusing the guilty.)
From "Elements of Libel and Slander"[1] > First, the plaintiff must prove that the defendant made a false and defamatory statement concerning the plaintiff. How do you prove that you didn't sexually assault someone 5 years ago? Gee, a recording of all of your interactions would come in handy here. [1] http://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and-personal-injuries/elemen...
Well, you could always ask Woody Allen.
https://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/an-open-letter-...
Re: No, of that I'm innocent
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the implication is that victims would have gone to law enforcement if he has no power over them, i.e no consequences for going to law enforcement. I don't understand why they cant report harassment to law enforcement if its ' unlawful to harass a person '. Thats the only way to get justice in our society.
In my experience, most women have done this a couple of times and found it both painful and useless. This leads to apathy. Yesterday my partner was harassed by a doctor. I asked if she wanted to file a complaint or report it to somebody. She simply looked disappointed and said that no it would be a pain and almost certainly accomplish nothing. Better to not see this doctor again and try to schedule appointments with…
>, most women have done this a couple of times and found it both painful and useless. This leads to apathy.
Whats the alternative though. How do we fix this.
Re: No, of that I'm innocent
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just people finding out you have a bodycam is likely enough to get a harassment bandwagon going against you. It's creepy.
You don't need to tell anyone.
In twelve US states, not telling people is a crime. California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington require all parties being recorded to consent.
Re: No, of that I'm innocent
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hell, studies have said anywhere between 2% to 90%[0] of rape reports are false, but telling that a rape is false / true is _incredibly_ hard due to it basically being "he says" vs. "she says". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumne...
For clarity: the larger more rigorous studies put it much closer to the 2% end.
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