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Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

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Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#131

Post by Clubber »

troels wrote: post #62

Article draws a lot of conclusions based of averages and statistics that may as well be correlations as causes. The industry is expanding rapidly. 20 years ago we were a lot fewer people. Even if we had perfect retention, the +40yo's will comprise a much smaller part of the workforce, than in an industry with less growth. It's also not very surprising that older workers are more experienced, limiting the potential po…

>The industry is expanding rapidly.

The industry had two major contractions, in the 80s and aughts that it still hasn't recovered from based on CS graduation rates.

https://www.geekwire.com/2014/analysis-examining-computer-sc...

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#132

Post by oddlyaromatic »

intellectronica wrote: post #125
oddlyaromatic wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>much of your experience from 10+ years ago isn't very relevant today >you're not more qualified than someone less experienced who has that skill. I'd gently disagree with this. An extra decade or more of working and navigating the relationships of a workplace, and honing a sense of professional judgment and problem solving is worth something. An employee does far more than implement a specific skill. You need some o…

"You need some of that extra stuff too". Indeed. but whether you have 10 years or 25 years of that extra stuff might not make more than a marginal contribution to how you're valued.

Looks like I missed that point in your original post. Seems about right. I think I was led astray by your last sentence about the skills.

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#134

Post by JohnnyConatus »

bengalister wrote: post #106

I am 41 years old, still doing software development and enjoying it for the most part. I work in France. Actually I enjoy it better than I used to since I find myself much more productive and I make less bad design decisions than I used to. I code daily in Javascript (NodeJs), Java and from time to time in groovy, python and golang. Being able to switch from 1 language to another, deploying in different cloud platfor…

I agree with everything you said except for one thing: developer salaries later-on are not artificially kept down vs the value they create. The are artificially inflated when they are younger due to the scarcity of developers. This is why one can become a "Senior Developer" at 24 (such as I did) because the title is matched to the salary as opposed to the actual amount of experience it would take to be a "senior" anything in any other field.

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#135

Post by adventurer »

nickjj wrote: post #117

I'll be 40 in a few years but I give zero fucks about age discrimination. I've found that most people don't really care how old you are as long as you provide them value. But I don't work at a corporation so I guess that puts me in a slightly different position. Instead I record and sell video courses that teach modern development practices. All of that started after I was 30. I guess my point is there's plenty of wa…

You don't really have the opportunity to be discriminated against in the same way, so you probably don't really count.

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#136

Post by psyc »

oldboyFX wrote: post #33

I see all these articles about the average employee age at startups being 20-30, and how older developers face discrimination. Now this is 100% anecdotal, but I know a few 45+ year old developers and most of them are long-time corporate employees and are not really interested in the whole startup / bloggosphere / tech hype world. They have good stable jobs (think Perl, .NET, Java), and are mainly focused on their fam…

I can't be sure yet, but I'm starting to be concerned. I turned 40 recently. My current job search has lasted about 5x longer than any previous job search. I've been turned down for nonsensical reasons, such as not having enough experience in a specific language that I have a lot of experience in. (That was an assertion by the interviewer, not the result of technical questioning.) I've been interviewed several times by managers and directors 10 years younger than myself. I've noticed a distinct pattern where they'll ask very basic questions, I'll give a detailed answer than I know to be correct and insightful, and they'll say it's wrong - and I'm just dumbfounded, like what can I say? I'm not going to argue with them.

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#137

Post by adventurer »

binaryapparatus wrote: post #52
code4tee wrote: post #15

Startups and such typically don’t want young people because their smarter, it’s because their more gullible career wise. Sure some people get a bit stale with age but some also get far far smarter and their experience can be very valuable. “Hey guys we have no business plan or customers, but please pull a few more all nighters to finish this bit of code.” 22 year old living with 5 roommates is like “yes sure, whateve…

This is VERY good analysis, everything else is padding to validate why 40 year old are not good fits. It is puzzling that most business owners prefer to save their imagined superior position than to get the job done. Sure I have seen ton of problems (and solved most of them) in 25+ years of carrier and I can be of great help in any startup. My caring for the company and input should be welcomed, not seen as threat. I…

Higher-ups and execs don't care if you're mediocre and barely get the job done as long as you kiss their ass and take their low pay to make them look good and get their bonuses.

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#138

Post by tyingq »

humanrebar wrote: post #87
allengeorge wrote: post #73

I suspect there are a couple of reasons - especially in the newer/startup space: * Salary. Older employees are more experienced, but, just as importantly, they've already job-hopped a bit, so their base is a lot higher. And they've probably a lot more personal financial responsibilities. All told, they're unlikely to go for the same salary as a new grad. * Interview process. Anecdotal experience, but, the interview p…

> It's hard to gauge experience I think this could be solved by coming up with a more common vocabulary of tech job titles. In medicine you have technicians, orderlies, surgeons, general practitioners, anesthesiologists, physician-scientists, nurses, physicians' assistants, teaching physicians, and so on. Not to mention all the hospital administrators. They're not all "medical engineers". They don't (at least not to…

>I think this could be solved by coming up with a more common vocabulary of tech job titles.

That's a good point. I think that mismatches in salary expectation are often driven by this. I can find jobs that feel very similar, but ask for "Senior Developer", "Software Engineer II", "Lead Software Engineer", "Tech Lead", "Software Architect", "Programmer Analyst". Then, the varied use of "Junior, Senior" vs "I, II, III", etc.

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#139

Post by adventurer »

toyg wrote: post #88
purplethinking wrote: post #86

Not sure if it'll be a problem for the millenial generation, but I'm sure not going to wait to find out. My goal is to not need a job by 45. If by then I still have to "beg" businesses to employ me, I will have failed. That means either enough money in the bank + low enough expenses, having my own stream of income, or be good enough that I can do consulting for multiple businesses (and thus diversify my across employ…

Good luck doing that with kids and a mortgage.

Imagine the cost of college alone.

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#140

Post by dogruck »

wpietri wrote: post #130
jakobegger wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that line of thinking is that it is extremely hard to measure the value that employees provide to the company. “Pay them what they are worth” sounds straightforward, but in reality you just can’t put a number on a candidate. The younger candidate might be inexperienced but a fast learner; the older candidate might have a lot of experience, but might be reluctant to adopt the companies coding practice…

> “Pay them what they are worth” but in reality you just can’t put a number on a candidate. I'm having trouble making sense of this. Isn't that exactly what the hiring manager does? Then, if that number is too far off, it gets adjusted later, once more data as to value comes in.

A cynical way of saying it is that since assessing employee value is so difficult, companies adopt a strategy of systematically discriminating against older candidates.
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