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Spain Will Remove Catalonia Leader, Escalating Secession Crisis

nytimes.com

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Re: Spain Will Remove Catalonia Leader, Escalating Secession Crisis

#141

Post by notspanishflu »

syshum wrote: post #113
notspanishflu wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, we're talking about the rule of law in democratic societies, not totalitarian ones. I don't know the source of your fascination if you don't understand that.

You believe no atrocities have ever been legal under a democratic society? Really? I suggest you study more history if you believe that Along with the rule of law I am fascinated by the difference people give to "democratic" society, as if that is the best, or some how perfect

When you state something like that, you must show us some sources.

Re: Spain Will Remove Catalonia Leader, Escalating Secession Crisis

#142

Post by notspanishflu »

6t6t6t6 wrote: post #134
JaumeGreen wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one under 57 has voted on this constitution. It should be modernised.

Also, when my parents voted for the constitution, the other option what to go back for the dictatorship. For them, not being beaten by the police for speaking Catalan, was a huge step forward in terms of human rights.

So you say the options were do you want democracy or we are going to resurrect Franco? hahahahaha

Nobody ever was beating for speaking Catalan. Ever.

Re: Spain Will Remove Catalonia Leader, Escalating Secession Crisis

#143

Post by notspanishflu »

6t6t6t6 wrote: post #135
notspanishflu wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spanish sovereignty resides in all Spaniards, not just a part of them. It is in the Spanish Constitution. If secessionists lose an election, they'll keep asking for another, and another.

And the sovereignty of the government comes from the social contract. When a big part of the citizens feel that they are not represented by the government, the social contract is broken. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract The Spaniards seem to love Rajoy, as they give him the majority in every election. Rajoy's party, "Partido Popular", is voted by less than 8% of the Catalans. So, the question is, why the…

Are you kidding? Do you know how a democracy works?

Re: Spain Will Remove Catalonia Leader, Escalating Secession Crisis

#144

Post by notspanishflu »

ryanlol wrote: post #115
notspanishflu wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I replied to jayniz, maybe you didn't see it. It's in the article 1.2 of the Spanish Constitution: > La soberanía nacional reside en el pueblo español, del que emanan los poderes del Estado. (The national sovereignty resides in the Spanish people, from which emanate the powers of the State.)

That certainly doesn't seem to outlaw people casting votes for independence.

It means all the Spanish people have a say when talking about sovereignty, not only a part.

That's why is illegal a election for secession with only a part of the Spanish census.

Re: Spain Will Remove Catalonia Leader, Escalating Secession Crisis

#145

Post by notspanishflu »

justin66 wrote: post #123
ryanlol wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That certainly doesn't seem to outlaw people casting votes for independence.

Indeed. It seems somewhat akin to "Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

But doesn't mean that.

In law there isn't something like 'oh it seems this legal precept means...'

All legal precepts have carefully chosen words and a spirit in which they're based.

Re: Spain Will Remove Catalonia Leader, Escalating Secession Crisis

#146

Post by notspanishflu »

ryanlol wrote: post #117
notspanishflu wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source for that?

https://twitter.com/JordiGraupera/status/914406594779205632 https://twitter.com/JordiGraupera/status/914408451870265344 https://twitter.com/LordRennard/status/914434884990652421 Here's one of the international observers verifying too

Are you really serious with those 'sources'?

Re: Spain Will Remove Catalonia Leader, Escalating Secession Crisis

#147

Post by syshum »

notspanishflu wrote: post #141
syshum wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You believe no atrocities have ever been legal under a democratic society? Really? I suggest you study more history if you believe that Along with the rule of law I am fascinated by the difference people give to "democratic" society, as if that is the best, or some how perfect

When you state something like that, you must show us some sources.

I dotn know how about some big ones

1. Slavery

2. Trail of Tears / Native American Reservations

3. Japanese internment camps

Those are 3 from just American History that everyone should agree on, Then there are others from other Democracies, plus things that happen in War Time in like Vietnam,

I could compile I huge list, the idea that democracies are some how pure as the driven snow free from any unethical or immoral action is so wrong I question how anyone to could believe that

Re: Spain Will Remove Catalonia Leader, Escalating Secession Crisis

#148

Post by foldr »

syshum wrote: post #133
foldr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you forgotten about the Civil War? It didn't go down super peacefully the last time a group of states tried to go it alone.

Have you forgotten about the American Revolutionary War... To answer your question no, I have not forgotten about the Civil War and to classify the Civil War as "states trying to go at it alone" is extremely ignorant of the political, economic, and other factors around the Civil War

I don't see how else you would describe the secession of the Southern States. It's basically Latin for "going it alone".

Re: Spain Will Remove Catalonia Leader, Escalating Secession Crisis

#149

Post by foldr »

syshum wrote: post #147
notspanishflu wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you state something like that, you must show us some sources.

I dotn know how about some big ones 1. Slavery 2. Trail of Tears / Native American Reservations 3. Japanese internment camps Those are 3 from just American History that everyone should agree on, Then there are others from other Democracies, plus things that happen in War Time in like Vietnam, I could compile I huge list, the idea that democracies are some how pure as the driven snow free from any unethical or immoral…

Slavery is a bit of a stretch. There were many restrictions on who was able to vote when slavery was legal in the US. (Most obviously, slaves couldn't vote, but women and many white men were also unable to.)

Re: Spain Will Remove Catalonia Leader, Escalating Secession Crisis

#150

Post by foldr »

ryanlol wrote: post #115
notspanishflu wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I replied to jayniz, maybe you didn't see it. It's in the article 1.2 of the Spanish Constitution: > La soberanía nacional reside en el pueblo español, del que emanan los poderes del Estado. (The national sovereignty resides in the Spanish people, from which emanate the powers of the State.)

That certainly doesn't seem to outlaw people casting votes for independence.

http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/spain-constituti...
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