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Interview with Susan Fowler

nytimes.com

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Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#41

Post by alphonsegaston »

atomical wrote: post #11
farnsworth wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not at all confident in the ability of the US to "clean up this mess". Similar arguments were made before the war in Iraq. I won't defend Saddam but I don't think you can argue that the average Iraqi ended up better off.

Stalin and Mao supplied Kim Il Sung in the Korean War because they didn't want democracy to spread to Asia. China and Russia are still obstructing the US with the same goal of preventing democracy. If we don't do it no one will. The Kims have proven their ability to retain power. Some people think death is better than having to live in North Korea: http://www.worldtribune.com/senior-north-korea-official-and-...

That’s a quite peculiar read of the history. The real story of Korea is something more like:

-The United States propped up the corrupt and vicious right-wing ruler Syngman Rhee, who was responsible for thousands of extrajudicial killings of his political opponents. And also not a real fan of democracy

-His reign of murder and repression created a context in which, Kim Il Sung, by opposing him, could build on his reputation as an Anti-Japanese occupation guerilla to become a populist hero.

-Who, in the imperial conquest by proxy battle known as the Cold War, then became the Chinese and Soviet’s man in the Korean Peninsula.

So neither side really fighting for or against the spread of democracy. Just their own interests. And everything is still a mess as a result!

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#42

Post by atomical »

> “I think, right now especially, with Trump in the White House, who knows what’s going on with North Korea?"

Why are people so worried about going to war with North Korea? There are concentration camps in North Korea. Are South Korean and American lives worth more than the lives of those in concentration camps? The USA tried to create a free Korea during the Korean War and failed because of China and Russia. We need to try again to clean up this mess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yodok_concentration_camp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoeryong_concentration_camp

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#43

Post by quadrangle »

baron816 wrote: post #16

> “Did you read that interview with the C.E.O., Travis, where he talked about how Uber helps him get girls? He’s a misogynist. I could never use his product.” I know nothing of the interview he’s referring to here, but how is it misogynistic to use your company to get girls? Was he picking up Uber employees or potential hires?

The phrase "get girls" is even itself misogynistic since it's already an objectifying phrase. That doesn't necessarily mean that the person using it otherwise deserves being judged and identified as a misogynist. But the judgment of Travis is probably based on a lot of other factors than that one phrase.

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#44

Post by quadrangle »

atomical wrote: post #40
fjsolwmv wrote: post #26

What ar we creating celebrities out of people who blogged about their experiences? She made a courageous public statement. Should she get to move forwards in her chosen technical career with this shadow behind her, or must she be turned into a social crusader? That weirdly distorts incentives of behavior.

How is someone else doing this to her? I assume she allowed this interview to take place.

I'm just saying this generally, not really weighing in on this case, but:

If you've ever been the subject of an interview or two, there's a decent chance you've had the common experience of not being presented as you expected. Experienced folks know how to basically tell journalists what words to write because journalists otherwise put all sorts of strange things and misinterpretations in.

You certainly can't put the style and overall presentation of the article on her in this case. Being interviewed doesn't mean you chose to present yourself the way the journalist ends up doing.

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#45

Post by atomical »

quadrangle wrote: post #44
atomical wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is someone else doing this to her? I assume she allowed this interview to take place.

I'm just saying this generally, not really weighing in on this case, but: If you've ever been the subject of an interview or two, there's a decent chance you've had the common experience of not being presented as you expected. Experienced folks know how to basically tell journalists what words to write because journalists otherwise put all sorts of strange things and misinterpretations in. You certainly can't put the…

Why else would they interview her?

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#46

Post by adamnemecek »

spamizbad wrote: post #34
adamnemecek wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iraq war Was fundamentally different. NK is extremely hierarchical, once the leadership is removed, the country can be reconstructed much easier. I can't say I care about Seth Bannons opinion.

China, who knows them best, seems to disagree. Otherwise they would have taken care of the Kim family years ago. There were similar "this is different! It will be easy!" arguments made for Iraq as well, especially when people suggested it could be like Vietnam (in the quagmire sense, not US causalities sense)

I disagree with the premise and the conclusion.

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#47

Post by dang »

kajecounterhack wrote: post #7
jsemrau wrote: post #2

I think the notion of the article is wrong. She did not bring down Travis. The misogynist culture he helped to create did.

Her writing exposing [the misogynist culture that he helped create] was a major catalyst, so the phrasing "she brought down the CEO" is fair. Maybe be better at picking semantic nits?

Please don't take this thread (or any thread) in a hostile direction, even if someone is picking nits. Your comment would be much better with just the first sentence.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#48

Post by dang »

atomical wrote: post #4

> “I think, right now especially, with Trump in the White House, who knows what’s going on with North Korea?" Why are people so worried about going to war with North Korea? There are concentration camps in North Korea. Are South Korean and American lives worth more than the lives of those in concentration camps? The USA tried to create a free Korea during the Korean War and failed because of China and Russia. We need…

Concentration camps? Good grief.

Please don't. It is a poster child of what we don't want: off-topic, political, ideological, generic, inflammatory. Did I miss anything?

Here's a tip: if we end up at "Stalin and Mao" we've reached internet information death. That's one of the black holes whence no thread emerges. If a tangent points there, please do it somewhere else.

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#49

Post by dang »

rockinghigh wrote: post #37
solidsnack9000 wrote: post #5

Her background is pretty non-traditional. Such people tend to be independent and consequently have a lot of integrity -- they do the career destroying things that almost nobody does. The only woman on the board then, Arianna Huffington, who had vowed that the culture of “brilliant jerks” must end, had been trying to help Mr. Kalanick by advising him to sleep more and meditate. But he caused another kerfuffle when he…

Why would they have a lot of integrity? From what I heard, she actually exaggerated some events.

> "From what I heard"

That's not good enough. Please don't post inflammatory comments to HN.

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#50

Post by dpiers »

atomical wrote: post #36
philsnow wrote: post #13

Susan Fowler's narrative is sort of the "dual" of the myth of the "little dutch boy" who stuck his finger in a dyke, preventing disaster through a very small act. [0] http://www.pantheon.org/articles/l/little_dutch_boy.html

I enjoyed reading that, but why did the boy put his finger in the hole if he was worried about being late to school?

The phrasing is confusing, but I think it means the boy knew he would be late if he helped, and the consequences of being late, but chose to act anyway.
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