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Are you suffering from burn-out?

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#41

Post by SMrF »

neodude wrote: post #35
tomjen3 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you have a very patient wife. Guess true love does exist.

If SMrF cares to share, I'd be curious to hear how his compulsion affected his relationship with his wife. Did she agree with the crazy hours? What did she do when you were crying yourself to sleep? It sounds like a horrible experience to watch a loved one go through.

We've known each other for a very long time, (met when we were 10, started dating 10 years ago), so this was just another experience in a very long series of events. Our relationship is stronger now, but it was strong to begin with.

Any more than this is too personal to share.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#42

Post by jpdbaugh »

sophacles wrote: post #31
jpdbaugh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did working manual labor help you figure things out? I am seriously considering working a job such as the one you described part time to pay the bills after school while I try to build a freelancing business.

I am going to chime in here with my experience on this: I worked my way through college, mostly as a bartender, and for a little bit as a janitor for the school. In high school I set up large canopy tents for a company. I learned through this that a lot of physical work is cathartic. I can get my frustrations out. I provides my body something to do, and my mind a trivial foreground task, so I can get lost in thought…

Thanks for the great reply. Back in high school I used to work at a real nice hotel doing Bell and Valet service. I remember being quite similar to your experience as a bartender. I wasn't dancing but the job had its own charm in running a mile for cars or seeing how well I could pack the bags in a car and all of the other small things like those that make up a job like that. I also attribute learning how to be more social to this job like you do with your bartender job. Being forced to talk to strangers all day definitely builds up some networking suaveness.

The thing that I really liked about the guest services gig was that the harder I worked the bigger my take. I made a lot of money doing the job and I definitely felt better about it because I knew that if I hadn't put in my best effort I wouldn't have made quite as much. So, I guess what I am trying to assert is that perhaps there is a sort of link me and presumably you, sophacles, who enjoyed working a service job, moreover one that most people hate, because of the nature or getting more value for more work and our interest in entrepreneurship?

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#43

Post by justlearning »

SMrF wrote: post #39
justlearning wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for sharing your experience. combined with the 'exact' same experience as http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1545774 , I have been in this phase for couple of years. I am trying to fight it (have to due to peer pressure to make money). It has come to my losing interest in anything. I used to love programming for the sole reason of enjoyment. I haven't made any changes to my lifestyle (I probably cannot). L…

I don't know how to fix your situation, but I do know what helped me, so I'll tell you that and maybe something will be helpful to you. The first challenge is to recognize your foe. You feel stressed and anxious at work, so it must be your job. You aren't achieving your goals as fast as you like, so it must be you aren't working hard enough, or you're not smart enough. You don't like anything you are doing, so there…

A sincere thank you!

I could relate the 'balance' aspect to (unburnt) people I see (both I whom look upto and them, who are seemingly 'happy' in doing the chores of the day). I am by code/articles/hn all of my waking hour. During work hours and when I go back. I even have my lunch and dinner by my laptop. I read articles or watch (from the huge list of google tech videos, that I have to finish).

What I gathered from earlier posts here is to 1) not compare with anyone. If anything learn and use yourself as a benchmark to improve upon. 2) don't worry about the results. 3) don't fear the failure. 4) baby steps (do anything that is answerable to big task, anything.) and from you : 5) balance.

I look forward to doing a 'Tell HN' after I overcome this struggle.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#44

Post by Sindrome »

When I was in college I took an internship at a Call Center building reporting software and some websites. I went in with a positive attitude and wanted to help as much as I could and prove myself and get a full time position, all that jazz.

They ended up taking advantage of me. Even though I was a Part-Time worker they would try to give me Full-Time work. In the end I was leading projects still as a part-time employee. I had endured many late nights and one full on 24 hour marathon coding session to prepare for a big telethon (American Idol - IdolAid). I frequently found myself wishing I could just walk out, but I was afraid of the effect it would have on my career. I developed trouble sleeping at night. I would stay up all night laying in bed because my head was still racing. Even though my body was exhausted, I couldn't fall asleep. I still have this problem now and then till this day.

When I finally got my degree I decided to leave that place and it was the best decision I ever made. Even though I didn't have a job lined up yet I was not nearly as stressed. Everything turned out fine for me, though I still feel the effects sometimes. I often joke that it was like Frodo in LOTR, once I had borne the ring (stress) for so long I could never be the same.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#45

Post by plinkplonk »

justlearning wrote: post #36
SMrF wrote: post #12

I wrote about my experience with burnout on a HN comment earlier: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508844 I really, really, really want people to avoid what I went through, so it thought I'd share some gory details. I clearly went through every phase of burnout jacquesm mentions. A compulsion to prove oneself: This was my entire purpose in life. I worked for a consulting firm with an 'up or out' culture, and this…

Thank you for sharing your experience. combined with the 'exact' same experience as http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1545774 , I have been in this phase for couple of years. I am trying to fight it (have to due to peer pressure to make money). It has come to my losing interest in anything. I used to love programming for the sole reason of enjoyment. I haven't made any changes to my lifestyle (I probably cannot). L…

"I have finished the first chapters of how to prove it, foundations of computer science and algorithms book. Although I am interested, I find myself lacking the motivation to continue...And this adds up, days to weeks and then months. Then the cumulative depression rides me to hell. "

It seems to me that you may be overloading yourself, especially if you have a 9 to 5 job. One of my friends is working through "How to Prove it" (see http://technotes-himanshu.blogspot.com/search/label/htpi for his blog on his progress - just one book, not three books like you are doing ). He has a boring (but consuming) corporate job, just got married and is other wise busy. He works for a steady 4-6 hours or so every Saturday and that is it.

And from personal experience, if you are trying to "level up" technically on top of a demanding work schedule, a steady and regular series of small bites seems to work better than ultra intense efforts, which burn you out fast.

PS: If your algorithms book is CLRS that is a tough book to combine with other hard books and on top of a job!

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#47

Post by mbutson »

I think burnout can be a serious issue, as witnessed throughout many of these comments. I seem to be a successful burnout about once every week. I go to sleep early, take a deep breath and start the cycle over again.

I am 20 years old, and I feel that I have a lot of catching up to do. This may be viewed as an insecurity, but it is an extremely motivating part of my life.

No matter how much of these I read, it is not going to slow me down. From an outside perspective it is unhealthy, yet there is no way that I can withdraw from this cycle until its the right time.

The right time will come for everyone. Just as it did for those telling there stories.

Thanks. HN is the shit.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#48

Post by eliben »

While a lot of what's written in that article sounds fearfully familiar, I think he's taking it too far, by referring only to the most extreme forms of burn-out. Burn-out can be temporary and mild, and I suspect this defines most of the cases. For example, a few weeks of low productivity (not 0!) with a recovery within a month or so.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#49

Post by justlearning »

plinkplonk wrote: post #45
justlearning wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for sharing your experience. combined with the 'exact' same experience as http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1545774 , I have been in this phase for couple of years. I am trying to fight it (have to due to peer pressure to make money). It has come to my losing interest in anything. I used to love programming for the sole reason of enjoyment. I haven't made any changes to my lifestyle (I probably cannot). L…

"I have finished the first chapters of how to prove it, foundations of computer science and algorithms book. Although I am interested, I find myself lacking the motivation to continue...And this adds up, days to weeks and then months. Then the cumulative depression rides me to hell. " It seems to me that you may be overloading yourself, especially if you have a 9 to 5 job. One of my friends is working through "How to…

Thank you. This is the precisely the kind of advice I am looking for!

I picked up -How to prove it- based on your recommendation(your comments on bradfordcross's blog [on machine learning]and later on your blog)

Algorithms -by Dasgupta,Papadimitriou,Vazirani is the book i picked up (available free at http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~vazirani/algorithms.html). I understand CLRS is the bible (i own a copy),but I don't think I am competent enough to attempt it now(especially after my work with SOA,ESB and every other mind rotting jargon) I felt this book to be digestible(atleast the first chapter). I could take a pause, think and continue from where I left. (please let me know if you have any cautions/advice regarding this book). With CLRS, I would have to pick and trace back every notation and come back.

Foundations of computer science - Aho and Ullman (available at http://infolab.stanford.edu/~ullman/focs.html)

I intend to finish these before end of this year. I have a (strong)feeling, I may miss this goal, hence the parallel study(shameful/guilt note - i missed the deadline last year). Will take your advice- work thru htpi first.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#50

Post by InclinedPlane »

eliben wrote: post #48

While a lot of what's written in that article sounds fearfully familiar, I think he's taking it too far, by referring only to the most extreme forms of burn-out. Burn-out can be temporary and mild, and I suspect this defines most of the cases. For example, a few weeks of low productivity (not 0!) with a recovery within a month or so.

Yeah. This sort of burn-out is definitely the extreme, but it's also the rarest. I think there's a far more common level of burn-out (perhaps "brown-out") which misses a few of the more serious symptoms and yet seriously impacts ongoing productivity and motivation.

The danger of defining burn-out as only this extreme is that there are a lot of people with milder though serious cases who may not appreciate that it's a problem.

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