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Are you suffering from burn-out?

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#11
I wrote about my experience with burnout on a HN comment earlier: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508844

I really, really, really want people to avoid what I went through, so it thought I'd share some gory details. I clearly went through every phase of burnout jacquesm mentions.

A compulsion to prove oneself: This was my entire purpose in life. I worked for a consulting firm with an 'up or out' culture, and this really fed into my desire to prove myself. It's like getting addicted to leveling your character in an RPG, except in real life.

Working harder: My only mechanism for coping with stress was to 'work harder', which of course fed right back into this vicious cycle. There was a point when I saw how much work was ahead of me on my project, and it was distressing. I didn't think I could keep up the pace. I spoke to someone close to me and said as much, and they said sometimes this is what is required in a job; just break it up into pieces and bulldoze through it. That's the advice that stuck with me for the next year. That advice fed into all of my personality flaws.

Neglecting one's own needs: At one point I told my boss I needed a weekend off. He was a bit shocked since I hadn't had a weekend off in months. I remember still taking calls on my 'weekend off'. I worked from home, but not so that I could take a break, but instead so I could waste less time commuting or dealing with stuff like personal hygiene, (I'm not joking, I actually rationalized this). My schedule was wakeup, grab breakfast and laptop and start working. Work until I was hungry, then stop to make myself a sandwich and have a 'working' lunch. Around dinner time my wife would feed me, and I would usually work straight through dinner, if I didn't I would spend most of dinner talking about work. Then I would typically work until I fell asleep. I did this for months.

Displacement of conflicts (the person does not realize the root cause of the distress) Near the end I fabricated paranoid stories about my coworkers and their attempts to make me fail. It took me a year of recovery to finally realize these stories were false and my failure and eventual collapse was almost entirely my own fault.

Revision of values (friends or hobbies are completely dismissed) It's hard to have friends when you are working 80 hours a week. I didn't have a social life and I killed all hobbies.

Denial of emerging problems (cynicism and aggression become apparent) -- See displacement of conflicts

Withdrawal, behavioural changes, substance abuse, depression I went from occasional smoker to smoking a pack a day. I gained 40 pounds. I became physically ill for weeks at a time, (a simple cough took me a full month to get over). And..(and this is humiliating, but I'm hoping other people will learn from my mistakes), I cried myself to sleep most nights. I don't cry, but during this period of my life, I did.

Nothing is this important. It takes years to recover. If you are still convinced that you need to 'optimize your productivity' then know that my output dropped to zero and stayed there for a long time. That is not very productive.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#12
I wrote about my experience with burnout on a HN comment earlier: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508844

I really, really, really want people to avoid what I went through, so it thought I'd share some gory details. I clearly went through every phase of burnout jacquesm mentions.

A compulsion to prove oneself:

This was my entire purpose in life. I worked for a consulting firm with an 'up or out' culture, and this really fed into my desire to prove myself. It's like getting addicted to leveling your character in an RPG, except in real life.

Working harder:

My only mechanism for coping with stress was to 'work harder', which of course fed right back into this vicious cycle. There was a point when I saw how much work was ahead of me on my project, and it was distressing. I didn't think I could keep up the pace. I spoke to someone close to me and said as much, and they said sometimes this is what is required in a job; just break it up into pieces and bulldoze through it. That's the advice that stuck with me for the next year. That advice fed into all of my personality flaws.

Neglecting one's own needs:

At one point I told my boss I needed a weekend off. He was a bit shocked since I hadn't had a weekend off in months. I remember still taking calls on my 'weekend off'. I worked from home, but not so that I could take a break, but instead so I could waste less time commuting or dealing with stuff like personal hygiene, (I'm not joking, I actually rationalized this). My schedule was wakeup, grab breakfast and laptop and start working. Work until I was hungry, then stop to make myself a sandwich and have a 'working' lunch. Around dinner time my wife would feed me, and I would usually work straight through dinner, if I didn't I would spend most of dinner talking about work. Then I would typically work until I fell asleep. I did this for months.

Displacement of conflicts (the person does not realize the root cause of the distress):

Near the end I fabricated paranoid stories about my coworkers and their attempts to make me fail. It took me a year of recovery to finally realize these stories were false and my failure and eventual collapse was almost entirely my own fault.

Revision of values (friends or hobbies are completely dismissed):

It's hard to have friends when you are working 80 hours a week. I didn't have a social life and I killed all hobbies.

Denial of emerging problems (cynicism and aggression become apparent):

-- See displacement of conflicts

Withdrawal, behavioural changes, substance abuse, depression:

I went from occasional smoker to smoking a pack a day. I gained 40 pounds. I became physically ill for weeks at a time, (a simple cough took me a full month to get over). And..(and this is humiliating, but I'm hoping other people will learn from my mistakes), I cried myself to sleep most nights. I don't cry, but during this period of my life, I did.

Nothing is this important. It takes years to recover. If you are still convinced that you need to 'optimize your productivity' then know that my output dropped to zero and stayed there for a long time. That is not very productive.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#13
post #2

Modern technology makes it so much easier to flirt with burnout without even realizing it. The laptop is always open on the kitchen table. The cell is never out of reach. There's no conscious thought to the work day or work week having a beginning and an end. It's amazing how easily all of this just becomes "normal."

It's a great point, I'm sure many of us here are in a situation running their own things or looking after things where they essentially would have to drop everything 24/7 should a problem arise or start losing money/ pissing off customers.

Sure it's not always working but it is something that is always present and has to be jumped into at short notice even if inconvenient.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#14

I my early 20s, after getting out of the service, I worked as an assistant manager at a fast-foot restaurant in the evenings while I did college during the day. It was a full load of credits, and the food place I was working was very busy too, so it made for a long, hard slog. One day I was talking to another of the assistant managers. I asked him about burn-out. Do you ever feel like you might be burning out? "Not m…

I'm still trying to figure out if the 'fast foot' restaurant was a mistake or a pun in relation to life being a marathon ;)

That's an excellent point though, and if life is a marathon then being burnt out is probably best compared to having to sit out a part of the race because you can't run any more.

I'm all for tackling all kinds of stuff, sometimes more than what you can naturally expect a person to do, as long as it doesn't leave any lasting marks (or at least none that are disfiguring) I say go for it. But keep an eye on the limits. When I was 23 the wife of a friend told me I'd be dead by 30 if I didn't slow down. So far so good. But I do understand now that there are limits to how much you can do without paying the price for it, and in some ways (in terms of missed opportunities and lost friends) the price was pretty high indeed. If I had slowed down just a bit somewhere in the early 2000's I'm fairly sure my life would have been quite different compared to what it is today.

You are spot on that it is all about learning yourself, your rhythms and values, that's exactly what it is. The machine called your body does not come with a list of 'do not exceed' parameters, and they're different for everybody, so only experience will tell you what you can and what you can't do.

I tend to live like a cat nowadays, either extremely lazy or hyper focussed on some project for a while, and then I take a break again. It's worked well in that I can still push myself to achieve something when I have to (and those lists really help), but at the same time I've learned that there are limits and that there is more in life than a keyboard and a screen.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#15
post #6
post #3

What does this blog bring besides an abstract of what Wikipedia says ? I mean, the timing is right: we just had some burnout discussions on the first page, but what does this blog post bring ?

An abstract is a reduction, I tried to write this with some context so that it becomes easier to figure out if this is something that you might be flirting with or not, to make it live. As a person that has come pretty close to burning out (not quite ready to admit that I did) I figure I can sketch the situations a bit clearer than if you've never experienced this first hand. I know we just had a burn-out discussion…

The problem with your blog post is that it doesn't show your voice at all! I couldn't tell that you were pretty close to burning out nor did you mention anything that seemed to be part of your own experience.

You start the blog with some introduction, you put a link to Wikipedia and then you re-list the Wikipedia phases.

So, I'm not dismissing your time spent writing this and I'm pretty sure it helps, but there are probably much better ways to rewrite that blog post and make it better.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#16
post #2

Modern technology makes it so much easier to flirt with burnout without even realizing it. The laptop is always open on the kitchen table. The cell is never out of reach. There's no conscious thought to the work day or work week having a beginning and an end. It's amazing how easily all of this just becomes "normal."

I fully agree with this one. By simply switching my blackberry to not buzz me when emails came in felt like a vacation. I realized at that point that I was close to burn-out.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#18
post #7
post #5

Is it possible to be burnt out for extended periods? (2yrs+)

Without any doubt, in fact, that's probably a good sign that you need some external help (friends, family, maybe professionals) to guide you back on to the road to recovery. I've spent 3 full years doing nothing but manual work (metalworking, building a house and a windmill) because I was literally at low tide. Still not sure if it actually was 'burn-out' (no sign of depression afaik) but other people I know in my en…

Did working manual labor help you figure things out? I am seriously considering working a job such as the one you described part time to pay the bills after school while I try to build a freelancing business.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#19
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An abstract is a reduction, I tried to write this with some context so that it becomes easier to figure out if this is something that you might be flirting with or not, to make it live. As a person that has come pretty close to burning out (not quite ready to admit that I did) I figure I can sketch the situations a bit clearer than if you've never experienced this first hand. I know we just had a burn-out discussion…

The problem with your blog post is that it doesn't show your voice at all! I couldn't tell that you were pretty close to burning out nor did you mention anything that seemed to be part of your own experience. You start the blog with some introduction, you put a link to Wikipedia and then you re-list the Wikipedia phases. So, I'm not dismissing your time spent writing this and I'm pretty sure it helps, but there are p…

Feel free to do so!

For me writing about burning out is like writing about a disease that I may or may not have suffered from, as I wrote here - and elsewhere - I spent three full years 'off' because the sight of a keyboard disgusted me, I couldn't see the point in shifting bits on hard drives around any longer. Doing physical stuff was a welcome change from all this virtual work and I still do a lot of that on the side now to keep a balance in my life.

The wikipedia article is very dry, as a rule I list the sources of the stuff that I write and I took the list and expanded on it to put this in to context so that it becomes easier to see if you are at risk or not.

Writing about my personal experience is a different kettle of fish altogether, I'm not even sure if I am quite ready to document that phase of my life, it was not the most happy occasion. What prompted this was the ease with which people throw the term 'burn-out' around, as if it is somehow a fashionable thing to be suffering from, instead of a serious and potentially debilitating (and in some very unfortunate cases life threatening) condition.

I'll think about putting together a piece on what exactly was my road to total misery and how I recovered from it (and to some extent am still recovering) but I still shy away from listing myself as having burnt-out, simply because during the whole thing I never felt bad about myself per-se, just about the work.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#20
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without any doubt, in fact, that's probably a good sign that you need some external help (friends, family, maybe professionals) to guide you back on to the road to recovery. I've spent 3 full years doing nothing but manual work (metalworking, building a house and a windmill) because I was literally at low tide. Still not sure if it actually was 'burn-out' (no sign of depression afaik) but other people I know in my en…

Did working manual labor help you figure things out? I am seriously considering working a job such as the one you described part time to pay the bills after school while I try to build a freelancing business.

Absolutely, I think it kept - and keeps - me sane. Physical stuff is great in that it keeps your body in shape and at the end of a day you can literally touch the result, you can see it, it is solid. Virtual work is much less satisfying in that sense, you could be programming the stars from heaven but if it is business logic internal to some application you'll be happy if some maintenance programmer sees it 10 years down the line.

I think that's a big part of what drives the open source movement, programmers getting appreciation from other programmers about their work in a way that 'closed source' will never give and money can't provide.

The last couple of weeks I spent on two tracks, the one is building a small RV (just drove it to the other side of Europe, so I guess that worked out well :)), and a web project that I hope to launch sometime later this year.

When I'm tired of the one kind of work, I switch to the other, it seems to work better that way.

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