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Are you suffering from burn-out?

jacquesmattheij.com

31–40 of 53 posts

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#31
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without any doubt, in fact, that's probably a good sign that you need some external help (friends, family, maybe professionals) to guide you back on to the road to recovery. I've spent 3 full years doing nothing but manual work (metalworking, building a house and a windmill) because I was literally at low tide. Still not sure if it actually was 'burn-out' (no sign of depression afaik) but other people I know in my en…

Did working manual labor help you figure things out? I am seriously considering working a job such as the one you described part time to pay the bills after school while I try to build a freelancing business.

I am going to chime in here with my experience on this:

I worked my way through college, mostly as a bartender, and for a little bit as a janitor for the school. In high school I set up large canopy tents for a company. I learned through this that a lot of physical work is cathartic. I can get my frustrations out. I provides my body something to do, and my mind a trivial foreground task, so I can get lost in thought -- not the intense focus of solving a problem, but just a mind wandering, tangential set of thoughts. I learned how nice it is to be able to walk away without concern, without the work consuming my thoughts.

There are two different aspects of all of this from my perspective. One is the exercise portion, bartending can be a good aerobic workout if you let it. Particularly if the bar has good music, basically you dance all night. This really is a good way to "zone". The other aspect of it is the menial task as a gateway to meditation. I mentioned my good thinks above, most of these came sweeping or mopping. Mopping a mile of hallways at night, or cleaning up after the bar closes, provides this, and is a great way to learn to enjoy the quiet.

All of this is hard to get as a professional. I personally would take that job if I were you, just to learn about the stuff I mentioned. The skills have definitely helped me in my life. Anytime I feel burnout coming on, I have to stop and reprioritize. I don't have bars or universities to clean up anymore, and I don't go dancing much. Instead I apply these things to my gardening and yard. Mowing is almost as good as sweeping. So is pulling weeds. The exercise i get by going for long walks, or hitting the gym. Doing this stuff really helps me get centered, and allows me to be more productive than I would be without, even if I reclaimed the couple hours spent on it daily and used them for work.

HTH

edit: thought about, but forgot to mention: There was a big component of bartending: talking to people every day. I am a total introvert, I can go days without talking to people about something other than work. The bartending thing really forced me to interact with people in a social, general way. This is surprisingly important, even if it feels awkward/uncomfortable. At least a couple times a week I go to a coffee shop or bar and interact with strangers, because it really does seem to do something.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#32

My personal test for preventing another burnout: Can I do this forever? (Y/N) If you answered N, stop making excuses, realize you deserve positive changes in your own life, and do it.

Sigh - easier said than done.

Hard decisions are difficult things to do with a stress-shot mind. Particularly when it's so easily framed as "admitting defeat"

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#33
post #12

I wrote about my experience with burnout on a HN comment earlier: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508844 I really, really, really want people to avoid what I went through, so it thought I'd share some gory details. I clearly went through every phase of burnout jacquesm mentions. A compulsion to prove oneself: This was my entire purpose in life. I worked for a consulting firm with an 'up or out' culture, and this…

Wow, you have a very patient wife. Guess true love does exist.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#34
post #27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do make sure you are getting help. My personal path to recovery involved a complete redo of my entire life. I quit my job, moved to a new city. I took an entire month off and did nothing but stuff that was fun, (mainly programming :-) My new job is a boring corporate coder type job that requires very little of my attention. I also started dieting, quit smoking and took up running. You can get better! It just t…

Thank you. I'm reasonably confident in my progress. The hardest part is realising, that you may never be able do again, what you once did. I think I'm there now.

Strictly speaking you are able to, but you shouldn't want to.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#35
post #33
post #12

I wrote about my experience with burnout on a HN comment earlier: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508844 I really, really, really want people to avoid what I went through, so it thought I'd share some gory details. I clearly went through every phase of burnout jacquesm mentions. A compulsion to prove oneself: This was my entire purpose in life. I worked for a consulting firm with an 'up or out' culture, and this…

Wow, you have a very patient wife. Guess true love does exist.

If SMrF cares to share, I'd be curious to hear how his compulsion affected his relationship with his wife. Did she agree with the crazy hours? What did she do when you were crying yourself to sleep? It sounds like a horrible experience to watch a loved one go through.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#36
post #12

I wrote about my experience with burnout on a HN comment earlier: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508844 I really, really, really want people to avoid what I went through, so it thought I'd share some gory details. I clearly went through every phase of burnout jacquesm mentions. A compulsion to prove oneself: This was my entire purpose in life. I worked for a consulting firm with an 'up or out' culture, and this…

Thank you for sharing your experience. combined with the 'exact' same experience as http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1545774, I have been in this phase for couple of years. I am trying to fight it (have to due to peer pressure to make money). It has come to my losing interest in anything. I used to love programming for the sole reason of enjoyment. I haven't made any changes to my lifestyle (I probably cannot). Last 3 weeks, I have been in the 'isolation phase' My work place, it's a farce of work with people pretending to get work done with unnecessary complex sub systems. My family raised concerns (they understand my phase, my wife often tells me to pursue academics, as I seen not raised for the corporate world). It's only when three members in my family asked the same question, I started to wonder. I have a thousand things in my mind and a struggling pain of not accomplishing anything. I encounter this every single minute of the day. I am so stressed by the whole lagging behind the world that I feel I cannot learn anything new. I have finished the first chapters of how to prove it, foundations of computer science and algorithms book. Although I am interested, I find myself lacking the motivation to continue...And this adds up, days to weeks and then months. Then the cumulative depression rides me to hell. The thought that someone started learning math about 6 years ago when I too picked interest and the comparison istantly drives me for a whole day of depression. During those days, I don't absorb a thing of what I read. I shake my legs when I think and I think all day. I am supposed to working on getting xml schema related work done and I am here shaking my legs and thinking. I have frequented HN enough to know to that I should visit a doctor. But I know that it will not work for me. I don't have the comfort in talking to a 'stranger'.I have heard few here: try a physically involved job. I want to try out (but feel I cannot due to the money factor). I have to earn the bread. I fight with myself saying 'there is do or do not, there is no try', the difference between doing it and thinking about it. I have all the motivation inside, but I just cannot bring myself to do anything. I can never finish any task that I start. This has been going for years. My sanity is still in positive numbers, thanks to my wife.

could you share how did you come out of this phase (perhaps there is much more than just moving to a different job). Do you have any personal stories? I ask this because, as I understand this is not the nature of the job but an intrinsic battle that you won.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#37
What is the effect of increased exercise on the burned out? I've started getting 20-30 minutes of additional almost daily exercise by bicycling for transportation, 10-15 minutes and 2.5 miles each way. I wouldn't say that I am a lot happier or that I'm sleeping earlier, but my legs are tired all the time and I derive some intellectual satisfaction from the perceived increase in my health. The psychological reality has not quite lived up to the hype.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#38
post #12

I wrote about my experience with burnout on a HN comment earlier: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508844 I really, really, really want people to avoid what I went through, so it thought I'd share some gory details. I clearly went through every phase of burnout jacquesm mentions. A compulsion to prove oneself: This was my entire purpose in life. I worked for a consulting firm with an 'up or out' culture, and this…

Thank you for sharing your experience. combined with the 'exact' same experience as http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1545774 , I have been in this phase for couple of years. I am trying to fight it (have to due to peer pressure to make money). It has come to my losing interest in anything. I used to love programming for the sole reason of enjoyment. I haven't made any changes to my lifestyle (I probably cannot). L…

I am off to my daily commute. I'm happy to say what worked for me, so I'll type something up once I get home. Just wanted to let you know I will be responding.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#39
post #12

I wrote about my experience with burnout on a HN comment earlier: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508844 I really, really, really want people to avoid what I went through, so it thought I'd share some gory details. I clearly went through every phase of burnout jacquesm mentions. A compulsion to prove oneself: This was my entire purpose in life. I worked for a consulting firm with an 'up or out' culture, and this…

Thank you for sharing your experience. combined with the 'exact' same experience as http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1545774 , I have been in this phase for couple of years. I am trying to fight it (have to due to peer pressure to make money). It has come to my losing interest in anything. I used to love programming for the sole reason of enjoyment. I haven't made any changes to my lifestyle (I probably cannot). L…

I don't know how to fix your situation, but I do know what helped me, so I'll tell you that and maybe something will be helpful to you.

The first challenge is to recognize your foe. You feel stressed and anxious at work, so it must be your job. You aren't achieving your goals as fast as you like, so it must be you aren't working hard enough, or you're not smart enough. You don't like anything you are doing, so there is something wrong with the world, or you don't have an adequate answer for meaning of life questions. For me the first step in getting better was realizing that the problem was exactly none of these.

The problem for me was balance. A lack of balance in my life was directly affecting my health which in turn was directly affecting my emotional and psychological well being, which made it pretty tough to deal with life, especially one as intense as I had created for myself. I got better by getting balance and getting my health back.

I quit smoking. I quit my job because it took up too much of my attention. I got a new job at a company with a culture that respects my life outside of work, but I gave myself a month between jobs to read scifi and work on fun projects. I started running. I started a diet to lose weight. I let myself play video games on occasion. I spent time on projects that were interesting and fun to me, not just projects that advanced my career. I went on dates with my wife again.

And then I just waited. It took a long time to get better. I ran my first 5K a week ago, about two years after I started). It took me two attempts to quit smoking, but it's two years of no cigarettes on the 29th. It took two years to lose the 40 pounds I put on. I emerged from my mental funk after about a year of this treatment. Then I almost did it to myself again, but this time I knew what was happening and stopped myself before much damage was done. I'm sure other people could have knocked out these goals faster than I did, but that was not the point. The point was to learn how to have balance in my life.

And now that I have something resembling balance I have my health back and my problems, (at least what I thought were my problems), seem to have melted away. I'm less stressed at work, I'm less concerned about achieving career milestones and I'm far more confident about my own abilities. I still have meaning of life questions I'd like to dig into, but they seem less pressing, less looming and gloomy, and more inviting. I still have stress, I still compare myself to others, and I still work too much. But what I experience of stress and anxiety these days is just a shadow of what experienced back then.

And there you have it. The foe I was looking for was me the entire time. But the solution wasn't to beat myself up or too work harder or be more ruthless. Instead I needed to learn how to find balance.

Re: Are you suffering from burn-out?

#40
post #33
post #12

I wrote about my experience with burnout on a HN comment earlier: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508844 I really, really, really want people to avoid what I went through, so it thought I'd share some gory details. I clearly went through every phase of burnout jacquesm mentions. A compulsion to prove oneself: This was my entire purpose in life. I worked for a consulting firm with an 'up or out' culture, and this…

Wow, you have a very patient wife. Guess true love does exist.

Yes, my wife is amazing. She never believes me when I tell her though. This comment might finally convince her!
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