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African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

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Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#51

Post by mabbo »

LordKano wrote: post #34

There is a very big aspect that people overlook in this conversation. There is what is known as the "dialect of power" and in the US that is Standard American English. It's not necessarily "wrong" to speak AAVE but in doing so, you will disqualify yourself from opportunities that could otherwise be open to you based on your education and/or experience. If someone calls you to schedule a job interview and you don't so…

You shouldn't have to.

I recently started a role where I work very closely with a guy from southern Kansas. He speaks with an accent that I would associate with hicks, farmers, non-intellectuals. And true to form, he was raised on a farm. But he's smart, hard working and great to work with. Every day that we work together, I'm learning things that I wouldn't have otherwise understood.

No one criticizes him for speaking with his dialect of English. He doesn't have to code switch. He speaks the way he speaks, he's understood and respected. That's what's different about AAVE. It's not just that it's not the dialect of power, it's a dialect people seem to go out of their way to not respect.

Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#53

Post by 8fGTBjZxBcHq »

sampo wrote: post #48

Norwegians spend the late 1800s and early 1900s quarreling amongst themselves what should be the standard for written Norwegian. Should they take the heavily Danish-influenced written language common in cities, or should they use something closer to the dialects spoken in the rural areas? Eventually, their parliament ruled that Norway shall have two official written languages and all government documents will be publ…

These are writing systems, not languages. As I understand it all Norwegian speakers _speak_ the same language, they just represent that language differently when writing it down.

Interesting but not that similar.

Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#54

Post by jtuente »

Pharylon wrote: post #32
scoot wrote: post #9

Am I understanding correctly that this paper is making the argument that because AAVE follows an identifiable set of grammatical rules, it is a dialect rather than an aberration? I don't have any opinion on that, I just wanted to make sure I understood the basic premise.

Sure, and many rules of AAVE are more consistent. For instance take the following words in standard English: * yourself * myself * ourselves * himself * itself One of these things is not like the other! All of these take the form of possive + "self," except "himself." And sure enough, in AAVE we have "hisself" instead. A more logical, consistent replacement.

To more heavily emphasize the point here consider the feminine possive as well, her/hers:

    * herself

Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#57

Post by specialist »

LordKano wrote: post #34

There is a very big aspect that people overlook in this conversation. There is what is known as the "dialect of power" and in the US that is Standard American English. It's not necessarily "wrong" to speak AAVE but in doing so, you will disqualify yourself from opportunities that could otherwise be open to you based on your education and/or experience. If someone calls you to schedule a job interview and you don't so…

I think it makes perfect sense.

My friends and family all speak deferently at home. Just off the top of my head: Greek, Norwegian, Vietnam, China, Punjabi, Native American, Iran, Ireland, Latino, British... A coworker is from South Carolina, his kids tease him about his accent whenever he talks to family (“talking country”). Seems perfectly normal.

Heck, I probably have my own dialect (Heinz 57) and don’t even know it. No, scratch that, I can generally tell when I’m talking to another local.

Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#58

Post by bluthru »

Pharylon wrote: post #44
LordKano wrote: post #34

There is a very big aspect that people overlook in this conversation. There is what is known as the "dialect of power" and in the US that is Standard American English. It's not necessarily "wrong" to speak AAVE but in doing so, you will disqualify yourself from opportunities that could otherwise be open to you based on your education and/or experience. If someone calls you to schedule a job interview and you don't so…

Sure, but lots of people code switch. As a southern white guy, I also don't speak on interviews the same way I do to my friends. Even around other southerns, you want to "turn it down" in a professional setting. I don't think there's any danger of English teachers not pushing standard American English. Mastering it does open doors. But I think we should also learn about other dialects, because in learning about them…

>I don't think there's any danger of English teachers not pushing standard American English.

I wouldn't be surprised if things get out of hand in California and English is seen as optional in some school districts in the future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_58_(201...

Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#59

Post by throwaway30yo »

LordKano wrote: post #34

There is a very big aspect that people overlook in this conversation. There is what is known as the "dialect of power" and in the US that is Standard American English. It's not necessarily "wrong" to speak AAVE but in doing so, you will disqualify yourself from opportunities that could otherwise be open to you based on your education and/or experience. If someone calls you to schedule a job interview and you don't so…

As a Canadian with a thick Newfoundland accent (which is not exactly considered an intellectual way of talking), I feel that I can relate to talking differently when with people from Newfoundland.

I have had to learn how to limit my accent. Growing up in public Canadian schools we took language classes to minimize this accent. While these courses are no longer ran, I am thankful that I was able to take them.

Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#60

Post by SjuulJanssen »

GavinMcG wrote: post #38
jchw wrote: post #19

It's pretty hard to initially digest, but when you think about it, right and wrong with language is almost entirely just convention. The difference between what we consider 'bad' English and dialects of English is dubious at best.

Can you make a further argument for that? You're basically dismissing the article, but you're not offering anything to justify that.

Natural languages are not designed. Pun intended. Afaik languages are more or less cannonised after people have already started speaking the language. If there is a large enough group talking in a certain way who's to say it's wrong. Every word has at one time been made up. If for example enough people decide they don't care about "their" or "they're" then "their" it is (or "there")
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