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African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

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Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#11
post #5
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It causes segregation based on race; Black people speak this language, white people speak this one. We're trying to bring these groups together, diving their language won't help at all.

It causes segregation based on race Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Why isn't it a result of segregation?

Yes, this is more likely. I suspect that there was also a desire for private communication using code words, especially before slavery was abolished.

Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#12
post #9

Am I understanding correctly that this paper is making the argument that because AAVE follows an identifiable set of grammatical rules, it is a dialect rather than an aberration? I don't have any opinion on that, I just wanted to make sure I understood the basic premise.

Right. The point is that the differences are following rules, they're not "mistakes".

Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#13
post #5
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It causes segregation based on race; Black people speak this language, white people speak this one. We're trying to bring these groups together, diving their language won't help at all.

It causes segregation based on race Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Why isn't it a result of segregation?

The causation probably goes both directions here.

Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#14
post #3
post #2

Languages change, evolve, and split into new languages. This has gone on forever- why would it stop now?

It causes segregation based on race; Black people speak this language, white people speak this one. We're trying to bring these groups together, diving their language won't help at all.

I'd be interested in reading evidence that supports a causal link between AAVE usage and segregation. To the best of my knowledge, no research has shown this to be the case, but I might be missing something. Did you have a particular study in mind?

Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#15
post #3
post #2

Languages change, evolve, and split into new languages. This has gone on forever- why would it stop now?

It causes segregation based on race; Black people speak this language, white people speak this one. We're trying to bring these groups together, diving their language won't help at all.

Recognizing a difference where there is one does not cause segregation based on race.

If we have to choose a causal direction, I'm pretty sure it goes the other way. Otherwise we'd say things like "The government are trying to take my job away." (what British English speakers would say) to suggest someone is stupid, but no one does. That sentence, from my American-English perspective, sounds just as "different" as "The government be trying to take my job away.", which is grammatical in Black English.

Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#16
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It causes segregation based on race; Black people speak this language, white people speak this one. We're trying to bring these groups together, diving their language won't help at all.

I'm from rural Arkansas, and from my perspective, the dialect that is spoken there shares more in common with AAVE than standard English. The difference that I see is that I was expected to learn and speak standard English in a professional environment while the perception among my peers seems to be that those who natively speak AAVE expect their dialect to be accepted in all settings. Note that I was careful to say…

I don't understand the "expect" part, but are you trying to describe code-switching?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-switching

Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#17
post #4
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It causes segregation based on race; Black people speak this language, white people speak this one. We're trying to bring these groups together, diving their language won't help at all.

That seems like a very inflammatory statement. I doubt what most african americans want out of desegregation is their culture wiped out and replace with american white culture. The more apt solution would be to stop being prejudice towards other american subcultures.

It’s not just a racial things. Rural whites have their own way of speaking that’s stigmatized in professional settings too.

Re: African American Vernacular English Is Not Standard English with Mistakes (1999) [pdf]

#20
post #9

Am I understanding correctly that this paper is making the argument that because AAVE follows an identifiable set of grammatical rules, it is a dialect rather than an aberration? I don't have any opinion on that, I just wanted to make sure I understood the basic premise.

Yeh which makes sense because grammatical rules are by the nature of how a people would develop a language intuitive to humans. We put names to those grammatical rules, but they are typically more so a function of how human beings as a species communicate.
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