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Where's the Proof That Mindfulness Works?

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Where's the Proof That Mindfulness Works?

#61

Post by [deleted] »

Danihan wrote: post #33
alexssung wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I think I could fly, but I'm not going to try. See how that works?

I've been working two full-time jobs for more than a year now while maintaining a bi-phasic sleep schedule. Think what you wish, but sitting there in pain for a few minutes while my life ends (by my own accord) doesn't seem all that difficult comparatively. I take on very hard tasks daily, and sustain work on them for a lot longer than three minutes. Don't make me challenge you to a vipassana, friendo.

[deleted]

Re: Where's the Proof That Mindfulness Works?

#62

Post by olleromam91 »

Danihan wrote: post #18
alexssung wrote: post #7

Videos of monks performing self-immolation are enough proof to me. These monks practice mindfulness meditation for decades, and as a result, they have such control over their minds that they are literally able to "ignore" the pain of being on fire and sit still through the entire duration.

I'm pretty sure I could do that too without much practice. Assuming it was an intentional choice, anyway. Your body can only handle so much pain before it basically shuts off, and then you don't feel much of anything. The real pain comes later, when you're healing. Not going to test it out though.

Go stick your finger over a flame right now and hold it there until you can't feel it any more.

Re: Where's the Proof That Mindfulness Works?

#63

Post by agumonkey »

olleromam91 wrote: post #57
emodendroket wrote: post #32

Frankly a lot of times "mindfulness" seems backwards. If I'm upset about something happening in the present, absolute focus on the present seems like not really the best approach, and I don't think indulging in thinking about the future or reminiscing about the past are really features you need to beat out of yourself. Also I was talked into reading the Power of Now and it's one of the most ridiculous things I've eve…

Embracing and experiencing emotions in the present moment is exactly what the concept of mindfulness aims to teach. Repression of emotions is widely considered an ineffective strategy of coping with negative circumstances. Stress and depression and other mental health conditions are determined much more by concerns about the past or future, questioning why or how things have or will happen. That's not to say that the…

I don't know what people feel or do when meditating this way. But one thing I felt in the last years is that our mind is a bit two-part. One feels, the other kinda decide to focus or amplify that. Meditating is a bit like relaxing the second and avoiding vicious feedback loops.

Re: Where's the Proof That Mindfulness Works?

#64

Post by emodendroket »

olleromam91 wrote: post #57
emodendroket wrote: post #32

Frankly a lot of times "mindfulness" seems backwards. If I'm upset about something happening in the present, absolute focus on the present seems like not really the best approach, and I don't think indulging in thinking about the future or reminiscing about the past are really features you need to beat out of yourself. Also I was talked into reading the Power of Now and it's one of the most ridiculous things I've eve…

Embracing and experiencing emotions in the present moment is exactly what the concept of mindfulness aims to teach. Repression of emotions is widely considered an ineffective strategy of coping with negative circumstances. Stress and depression and other mental health conditions are determined much more by concerns about the past or future, questioning why or how things have or will happen. That's not to say that the…

Well, like I said, I just read the one book by a famous proponent, but the focus was much more on dissociating yourself from your emotions.

Re: Where's the Proof That Mindfulness Works?

#65

Post by woodandsteel »

I wonder if it is the case that mindfulness is helpful for certain types of people, ineffective with others, and actually harmful with some people. Maybe all the effects cancel out when you do a study with a large sample, and that is why it seems to be ineffective.

Re: Where's the Proof That Mindfulness Works?

#66

Post by emodendroket »

thinkling wrote: post #60
emodendroket wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like old-fashioned self-restraint. One frustration of this stuff is the difficulty in pinning down exactly what the claims are.

To me, saying "it's hard to pin down what the claims for meditation are" is a bit like saying "it's hard to pin down what the claims for psychiatry are". Meditation comes in several flavors and within the flavors is practiced in very different ways. The top level claim is "this will make you feel better" but when you try to verify that you're going to have to restrict it to something narrow that doesn't represent the…

But I don't mean "meditation" in general -- even if you look at one person's claims, you think you have it and then you voice a disagreement and, whoops, you haven't understood it, or else you wouldn't criticize it.

Re: Where's the Proof That Mindfulness Works?

#67

Post by thinkling »

Danihan wrote: post #54
thinkling wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does your work normally involve very high levels of physical pain that would make any normal human scream at the top of their lungs?

Yes, I work in IT. Why do people put monks on such a pedestal?

Which part of your IT infrastructure inflicts physical pain?

Re: Where's the Proof That Mindfulness Works?

#68

Post by davzie »

Danihan wrote: post #56
davzie wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/r/iamverysmart

Your previous comment is about procrastinating for 6.5 hours every day while dreaming of changing careers. You realize not everyone has the luxury of living like that, right?

I know right !

Re: Where's the Proof That Mindfulness Works?

#69

Post by sanmon3186 »

nabla9 wrote: post #16

As someone who has meditated 20 years, 2-4 hours per day and participated in long retreats 7 days to month, I have always been skeptical about this "mindfulness business". It has it's roots in old meditation traditions, but they were never supposed to bee quick fix, relaxation or therapy. Many therapy methods work well with the therapist who developed it, but don't give good results when packaged into programs and co…

> Kabat-Zinn is experienced meditator and I'm not surprised if his therapy works when he is involved.

Isn't the premise of MBSR, mindfulness? What in your opinion, is the delta that makes such therapies different than plain mindfulness?

Re: Where's the Proof That Mindfulness Works?

#70

Post by dwaltrip »

thinkling wrote: post #42
nabla9 wrote: post #16

As someone who has meditated 20 years, 2-4 hours per day and participated in long retreats 7 days to month, I have always been skeptical about this "mindfulness business". It has it's roots in old meditation traditions, but they were never supposed to bee quick fix, relaxation or therapy. Many therapy methods work well with the therapist who developed it, but don't give good results when packaged into programs and co…

My experience (personal and from a few friends) is that there's a step function. A small amount of initial meditation gives some immediate benefit. Continuing to do that same thing yields little more. Further benefit takes a much larger effort until new plateau. Specifically, I think there's definite short-term benefit to be had from small amounts of relaxation-oriented meditation, and from the common teaching "don't…

Strongly agree with this. It'd be nice to see some studies tackle this angle.
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