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Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#411

Post by thanatropism »

arkades wrote: post #103
ransom1538 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but the lack of apps ultimately made us move to another ecosystem" Nuts. People don't even use apps [i]. They may have facebook or netflix installed - but then it gets real thin. https://www.apptentive.com/blog/2017/06/22/how-many-mobile-a...

Your post and his comment do not contradict one another. Or rather, your interpretation of the data in that post is shaky. Consistent with the data presented in that post: -I download lots of one-time-use apps. They're useful, and I won't use a phone without them, and then uninstall them in a week (eg, city specific apps when traveling) - I download lots of special use apps that contribute few app-hours most of the t…

In what industry do you work?

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#412

Post by je42 »

criddell wrote: post #321
narrator wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about the MS platforms that has always been an issue is that they change the developer APIs around all the time. Every year they come out with the latest greatest way to access a database or whatever and it really isn't that much better than what they had last year, but it still requires a rewrite.

In Microsoft's defense, they also tend to support their stuff for a long time. I work with MFC every day. It's 20+ years old and still being developed.

OMG. MFC ? You mean Microsoft Foundation Classes ? mmh. that stuff is still supported ? eventhough there was/is all the .NET crazyness. That's actually pretty good of MS. I guess the main question is: how do you in advance if you got a MFC-like library from MS with 20+ year support vs a library like Sliverlight where they drop support and let you alone with a migration to a different platform ?

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#413

Post by thomasz »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #393
hinkley wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To spend that kind of money on marketing and then not dedicate resources to the actual product seems foolish. Sounds like a Hollywood strategy to me. Overadvertise a stinker to try to recoup your investment.

but marketing was always a core M$ strength. it's been a standard criticism of the company for a very long time.

They were great at getting their OS preinstalled on nearly every PC. They were really good at backwards compatibility, and they were absolutely ruthless against their competition. But they always, always sucked at marketing.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#414

Post by WorldMaker »

garganzol wrote: post #346
WorldMaker wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a user experience standpoint: sideloading is just "install this app". Click a link on a website to an APK for Android or APPX for Windows and watch it install. It doesn't get much easier than that. Fewer hurdles and security concerns than installing some random EXE that may be a wrapper for an MSI and needs Administrator rights to your machine for who knows what reason. The install experience for an APPX link is…

The given problem is not in the UX standpoint, it's a developers' problem. As a developer of WinAPI app, I can just click on .EXE file. I can use CreateProcess to run it. I can use command shell to run it, right? And so on. I'm free. The UWP is a different story: as a developer, I can do exactly nothing. I cannot run .EXE. I cannot run .APPX. I cannot run from command shell. I cannot distribute .EXE. I cannot distrib…

> I cannot distribute .APPX

You can distribute .APPX. You can't distribute an unsigned .APPX and guarantee users can use it, but you haven't been able to do that with .EXE in years either.

> I cannot run .APPX.

Double clicking an .APPX installs it.

> I cannot run .EXE.

You can include Win32 .EXEs in .APPX packages now. There's a bunch of tools to support just that scenario called the "Desktop Bridge".

> I cannot run from command shell.

The desktop bridge now supports command line apps: https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2017/07/05/command-li...

Any app that supports protocol activation (URIs like xbox:// or my-custom-app://cool-action) can be called with PowerShell (`Start-Process xbox://`). Most apps don't publish activation URLs, but some common ones are discoverable.

From within a UWP app you can launch other apps and files to their associated and URLs: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/uwp/api/Windows.System.Laun...

The Desktop Bridge has an API to launch an .EXE from UWP, either as a background task or a foreground task. There are also APIs to transfer data between the .EXE and UWP apps.

> I have to use exclusively Visual Studio in order to run my app.

You don't have to. It's a lot easier, but it's not the only way. APPX isn't that special, it's a zip file with an XML file and your binaries and whatever else, and any IDE could put one together if it desired. I wouldn't want to hand-build .APPX packages, but that's an option if you really desire it.

> I cannot launch automated UI test.

There are automation drivers for Appium and Selenium for UWP.

> Why should I play bureaucracy games with certificates on my own machine?

You don't, Windows Developer Mode does all the security work for you for your own development/testing needs.

IF you want to let others install your app, you need a security certificate. This has been the case with .EXE and .MSIs for decades, this is not new security.

> "Launch from Layout" API

I have no idea what this is referring to.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#415

Post by dpark »

garganzol wrote: post #371
dpark wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft got a chance to steal market shares and established themselves as an alternative to iOS and Android when they introduced Lumia 950 and 950XL. The hardware was never the problem. Lots of great devices shipped with Windows Phone. (Disclosure: Microsoft employee)

At some point I looked for Windows Phone device with a decent audio output so I could enjoy my lossless paid subscription to services like Tidal. I wasn't able to select a Windows Phone. There were several models but none of it made an explicit accent on sound quality. As a last resort I looked to external DACs and it turned out that Windows Phone didn't support them either. I just went and bought a second hand iPhon…

The set of people interested in running external DACs for their phones is vanishingly small. I’m pretty sure that losing that market wasn’t what doomed Windows Phone.

Regardless, my point wasn’t that the hardware was perfect for everyone or every use case. The point was that there were premium Windows Phone devices before the 950 showed up. The 950 arrived after the end state for Windows Phone was pretty obvious.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#416

Post by hajile »

jannes wrote: post #295
simonw wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget Mozilla, Ubuntu, Nokia and Blackberry.

You're still missing: - Palm/HP webOS - Intel Moblin - Samsung Bada

webOS still had a chance when HP's CEO churn killed it. It's UI is still better than modern Android or iOS. All it needed was a single generation of decent hardware.

Moblin was merged with Nokia's Maemo into Meego. Meego was a resounding success on the one phone it shipped (Nokia N9 sold millions of devices in non-primary markets with zero advertising). We can thank Elop the Trojan CEO for that one.

Meego morphed into Tizen which Samsung promised not to change too much before proceeding to basically replace the entire UI stack with Bada. Tizen offers nothing but a rip-off Android experience and an SDK with a EULA that screws devs so bad that even MS or Apple wouldn't dream of having it (last time I checked, if you write something with the proprietary Tizen SDK, you hand all your rights to your code over to Samsung).

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#417

Post by marcosdumay »

narrator wrote: post #244
dtx1 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked 3 years as a windows phone dev and i'm sorry to say but Microsofts efforts were ... almost insultingly bad. It started with windows phone 8 and the Metro UI. Bad Idea. The UI was too far away from Android/iPhone to be easily ported and adding corporate design to it was hard as it was too different. Silverlight and XAML was okay for the time. Then came windows 8.1 and windows desktop 8 which was universally h…

The thing about the MS platforms that has always been an issue is that they change the developer APIs around all the time. Every year they come out with the latest greatest way to access a database or whatever and it really isn't that much better than what they had last year, but it still requires a rewrite.

> The thing about the MS platforms that has always been an issue is that they change the developer APIs around all the time.

There was a time when MS would detecting the binary name, and change core kernel functionality just to provide bug-compatibility to older versions of Windows. By that time they got an unbeatable market dominance...

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#418

Post by executesorder66 »

tweedledee wrote: post #407
tweedledee wrote: post #351

Does anyone actually make money on the app Store? Either Desktop or Mobile? I have a niche desktop app that I'm thinking about porting. It's probably a few weeks worth of work. The 30% cut might be tolerable if I can increase the sales.

Am I shadowbanned? I can't see my comment from another account.

I can see both your comments.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#419

Post by limeblack »

dtx1 wrote: post #398
limeblack wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that at no point had even a single feature that wasn't available better on iOS and Android According to the dates[0] I found online says Windows was the first to have a feature that would automatically connect to your cellular connection if the Wifi didn't work. Most consumers don't care but it is something I was surprised iPhones[1] and Android[2] didn't have at least at the time. In addition continuum is unique/b…

> If I recall correctly Windows was the first to have a feature that would automatically connect to your cellular connection if the Wifi didn't work. Most consumers don't care but it is something I was surprised iPhones and Android didn't have at least at the time. I remember having an app on android that did that long before windows phone had it. It was able to turn on/off your wifi based on your location. Great bat…

> I remember having an app on android that did that long before windows phone had it. It was able to turn on/off your wifi based on your location. Great battery saver.

That is technically different although similar. I have updated with dates. Windows Phone definitely appears to have been first in this scenario unless you count rooted devices which may have something I don't know about.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#420

Post by mixmastamyk »

dtx1 wrote: post #253
cjsuk wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. They also rewrite stuff half way through and tell you it's the same project just to piss you off. Windows Workflow and Windows Communication Foundation for example. I'm really disinclined to invest in any of their technology because my headspace is finite and I want to deliver business value, not change the unworn carpets once a year.

It's also just such a bad idea because they never get to mature their features, add uniqueness or allow 3rd party devs to build the ecosystem. They just build the same thing over and over again while their competitors keep refining, innovating and adding features. Really a bound to fail strategy

Maybe MS and the FLOSS world aren’t as different as we thought. Look up CADT by Zawinski for details.
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