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Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#251

Post by toyg »

fetbaffe wrote: post #50

On what hardware platform does Microsoft earn money on? Xbox and keyboards? Will Microsoft go back to a pure software maker?

With the right strategy, making money is not essential. Like Google with the Nexus a few years ago, MS needs only to build reference hardware to keep OEMs on the straight and narrow, then collect elsewhere (with preinstalled services or OS that OEMs end up distributing).

The problem is that "elsewhere" is currently occupied by Google (in terms of ubiquity) and Apple (in terms of profit), so MS has been pushed into the uncomfortable role of luxury OEM, and there is no major money there regardless of whether you make phones or laptops.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#252

Post by jmkni »

ygra wrote: post #213
jmkni wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC Winforms relies on core, proprietary, parts of Windows which couldn't be feasibly ported to .net core. Not sure about WPF. It's a shame because it's a great development experience.

Windows Forms is a thin wrapper around the Win32 API and GDI+. Which is good if you want to customize things on a low level, but bad if you want to run it anywhere else. But cross-platform compatibility for a UI framework was probably a very low priority in 1999 or 2000. You could port it to .NET Core, but then you could only run it on Windows, since pretty much everything is a P/Invoke into user32.dll. Generally, ha…

Thanks for going into more detail, very interesting!

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#253

Post by dtx1 »

cjsuk wrote: post #250
narrator wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about the MS platforms that has always been an issue is that they change the developer APIs around all the time. Every year they come out with the latest greatest way to access a database or whatever and it really isn't that much better than what they had last year, but it still requires a rewrite.

Yes. They also rewrite stuff half way through and tell you it's the same project just to piss you off. Windows Workflow and Windows Communication Foundation for example. I'm really disinclined to invest in any of their technology because my headspace is finite and I want to deliver business value, not change the unworn carpets once a year.

It's also just such a bad idea because they never get to mature their features, add uniqueness or allow 3rd party devs to build the ecosystem. They just build the same thing over and over again while their competitors keep refining, innovating and adding features. Really a bound to fail strategy

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#254

Post by throwaway613834 »

rchaud wrote: post #233

Had Microsoft's acquisition strategy been different, they could have significantly boosted WM's hopes. The lack of official apps for Whatsapp and Instagram on WP were user's biggest complaints by far. Facebook bought Instagram in 2012 and Whatsapp in 2014 for a combined total of $20 billion. In roughly the same period, Microsoft bought Skype, Minecraft and LinkedIn for a total of around $36 billion, the bulk of that…

I'd completely forgotten that Microsoft had actually bought LinkedIn. Even though now I recall seeing the news, until you mentioned it I was thinking they just had a partnership or something going on.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#255

Post by YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 »

richardknop wrote: post #226
unethical_ban wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We still can't get the basics like sound, wifi, etc out of the box. Complete and total fabrication. Video for gaming is still trouble, but I have no more issue with Linux wifi or sound output than I do with Windows. In fact, Linux networking to me is better than Windows.

Depends on your device. I have had issues on some laptops, other laptops worked flawlessly. I know this is anecdote but a lot of people share this anecdote.

What was the last Linux laptop you installed a Windows on? (edit: removed unnecessary remark.)

The last laptop I did a clean install of Windows (7) on was a HP netbook. Even though it was a Windows machine, and I used their Windows install disc, it was a miserable experience (because I didn't have the separate driver disc). Not only did not the WLAN work, neither did the Ethernet port: the only way to get online was by using my phone as a Bluetooth dial-up – luckily I had a Symbian device you could do that with. And even then, Windows Update was of no help – I had to navigate to HP's website to download the very separate driver packages for WLAN and Ethernet functionality (and any other packages I can no longer remember).

By the way, with Ubuntu connectivity worked fine out-of-the-box – which is lucky, because although I have used Linux for over a decade as my daily driver, I have never had to install WLAN drivers for one, and probably couldn't. (Nothing could save the slow Atom from offering woeful user experience, though. One of the worst deals I ever had as far as computers go.)

edit: wording and clarification

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#256

Post by mcny »

rchaud wrote: post #233

Had Microsoft's acquisition strategy been different, they could have significantly boosted WM's hopes. The lack of official apps for Whatsapp and Instagram on WP were user's biggest complaints by far. Facebook bought Instagram in 2012 and Whatsapp in 2014 for a combined total of $20 billion. In roughly the same period, Microsoft bought Skype, Minecraft and LinkedIn for a total of around $36 billion, the bulk of that…

> LI's value to anyone outside of recruiting agencies is dubious.

This is exactly the reason why LinkedIn needed the acquisition. I agree with you that the $26B price tag makes no sense given that LinkedIn needed this deal more than Microsoft did.

> The software giant will pay $196 a share - a premium of almost 50% to Friday's closing share price.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36519766 https://archive.fo/SoaO6

I think Windows Mobile should have followed through with its bridges, particularly the Android Bridge that it unceremoniously burned.

ref https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-officially-cancels-... https://archive.fo/qtqcK

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#257

Post by toast0 »

itsmenotyou wrote: post #30

I was working in Microsoft about 5 years ago and Satya's not lying when they say they tried everything to incentivise app developers. It was a big focus of the company at the time. For keystone apps they tried to partner with developers doing most of the work for them. For more niche apps they ran promotions for students and independent developers giving away free phones etc. But nothing was enough to get over the pr…

The lack of apps was annoying at time, but what made me leave was probably Microsoft Edge. The rendering was clearly better than IE, but Edge would crash my phone, or become non responsive, or both so often (creators update on Lumia 640 LTE). If the browser doesn't work, and there are no apps, it doesn't make sense to have the phone.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#258

Post by glenstein »

rchaud wrote: post #233

Had Microsoft's acquisition strategy been different, they could have significantly boosted WM's hopes. The lack of official apps for Whatsapp and Instagram on WP were user's biggest complaints by far. Facebook bought Instagram in 2012 and Whatsapp in 2014 for a combined total of $20 billion. In roughly the same period, Microsoft bought Skype, Minecraft and LinkedIn for a total of around $36 billion, the bulk of that…

I completely understand the acquisition of Skype which was the undisputed king of video chat in its prime. It has since languished for any number of reasons, (probably relating to Microsoft's management but I'm not sure).

But I agree, a decent acquisition strategy could have done wonders for their ecosystem. Instead of constantly making and shutting down competitors to popular products, buy the popular ones. There was a time before now when Evernote would have been a nifty target, before they collapsed under their need to make money. There are plenty of amazing music platforms that people care about which aren't Groove.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#259

Post by pjc50 »

garganzol wrote: post #225
Grom_PE wrote: post #215

If only I could properly reprogram this WP8.1 phone I have here, it would've been much more interesting. But rooting/jailbreaking (in WP world called "Interop unlock") has always been awkward and possible only for the most popular types of WP: Lumia, Samsung. To write programs, it requires me to install Windows 8 or 10 — can't do with Windows 7 or Linux. Even if I write a program, this phone requires special develope…

And then those MBA types are wondering why their "business strategy" is not working. The same applies to the Windows Store on Desktop. All that walled garden nonsense they are trying to impose is not going to work. The only thing I could seriously recommend to those clerks is to eat their neckties and finally become living human beings.

> All that walled garden nonsense they are trying to impose is not going to work

It seems to "work" for Apple, unfortunately. I can't see any business giving up on the prospect of having a 30% cut of everyone else's software ...

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#260

Post by cjsuk »

dtx1 wrote: post #253
cjsuk wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. They also rewrite stuff half way through and tell you it's the same project just to piss you off. Windows Workflow and Windows Communication Foundation for example. I'm really disinclined to invest in any of their technology because my headspace is finite and I want to deliver business value, not change the unworn carpets once a year.

It's also just such a bad idea because they never get to mature their features, add uniqueness or allow 3rd party devs to build the ecosystem. They just build the same thing over and over again while their competitors keep refining, innovating and adding features. Really a bound to fail strategy

Exactly that.

The feedback loop is shit as well. Out falls a broken pile of shit for a CTP. No one accepts any feedback. It hits RTM, no one accepts any feedback. Two years down the line, the same bugs are open.

You should hear the partner reps wanting to cry when you report a bug in something that you NEED a fix for and are paying support for. You get fuck all other than a registry fix or a hack even if the mainline product is falling to bits across a thousand or so users (which is what happened to us).

Money where the mouth is as well. Typical shit:

https://github.com/Microsoft/SCVMMLinuxGuestAgent/issues/2 -> ignored. Regularly hoses our new VMs deploying windows on SCVMM.

https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3093 -> fuck you go away we're just going to take your data unless you set a magic variable even though no one wants to give it away as indicated by the ticket and there are bugs in the configuration and it causes people massive audit problems.

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