Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's because rural Chinese or Cambodian makes a lot less than a rural American described in this article.
Hence one of the critiques of globalism.
I may have not been obvious - i'm agreeing.
After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America
251–260 of 346 posts
Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
It might help if they hired local journalists or republished stories from local media sources. It's pretty ridiculous reading articles from coastal media that covers other parts of America as though it were a strange, foreign land, full of unfamiliar customs. Or maybe that really is how the NY/DC/SF/LA ruling class feels?
> It's pretty ridiculous reading articles from coastal media that covers other parts of America as though it were a strange, foreign land, full of unfamiliar customs. To people outside the region covered, it is a strange, in many ways foreign, land, full of unfamiliar customs. So is, say, California to outsiders; including New Yorkers, the idea of a culturally homogenous bicoastal society is a myth made up to sell a…
To be fair, attitudes of many on the coasts are doing a good enough job of that already.
Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Giving money directly to people may help for a while, but is likely to spark inflation, I take it you are referring to Universal Basic Income. It would only cause inflation if the most of the goods in their basket of unmet needs were supply constrained. But those commodities (i.e household goods), are not supply constrained at all, due in no small part to industrial efficiency and globalization, so they likely won'…
The biggest unmet need is housing, and in most areas that is definitely supply constrained. UBI will just go right into landlords pockets.
The biggest advantage I can see is that it would let people get out of such supply-constrained housing markets. If you're got a guaranteed $15-20k UBI, then why not bail on being in a super-expensive city? Go earn minimum wage as a lifty at a ski mountain out in Wyoming or Montana, where land is dirt cheap, or whatever else it is that would float your boat.
The downside in most of these areas now is that the employment market sucks. Consequently, you already tend to see a lot of people on fixed incomes, like retirees, living there.
Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're making a lot of good points here, but: > Coal is still cheaper... This is only true when you socialize the long-term costs incurred by coal. Regulation is an attempt to push some of those costs back onto the companies that incur them, and then it turns out that coal isn't so cheap after all. I suppose that since "regulation" is becoming a dirty word in politics, and especially with the influence from f…
For all our focus on the indirect costs in coal, there seems to be willful ignorance about the environmental impact of Chinese solar panels. Sure, you can get solar panels from countries with more environmental oversight but that's going to impact the payoff curve. It's a shame that the focus is on conservation - energy abundance is better for humanity.
Human civilization has always made concessions in the name of progress, and as we've progressed, the concessions we're willing to make have changed.
There certainly are environmental (and human) costs associated with producing electricity from solar energy, but the costs between that and coal production and combustion are not exactly the same.
I hope there will be a day when the production of conventional PV will be a concession we're no longer willing to make because something even better has been developed.
In the meantime, in a discussion about the socialized costs of coal and whether that's being fairly factored into arguments about its price, I think "but solar..." is a bit of a red herring. Relevant, but only barely.
Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America
#255I'm not as bad off as this woman but the difference is irrelevant in the big picture as I won't survive either. I am in my 40s with no skills, a dead CV and the expectation that if I really wanted it I would just pull on my non existent bootstraps. Over a decade ago my life was ruined by medical mistakes. It cost me my career and everything I had worked for. It started a long road of being denied assistance from disa…
I don't know about anyone else here, but I'd like to hear your story. I cant help you in any way, much to my own discredit, but if you want someone to speak to, or if you ever feel like sharing publicly, I'd be interested. Side note, where are you moving to?
I don't even see most of my posts so I think something is still filtered or else I am being downvoted so they don't show? A mod said the new account spam thing was released Don't understand HN well as I have always lurked and never participated.
I have told my story in forums many times and it never got me anywhere but more exposed and depressed so I don't feel comfortable giving too many details...though I sort of laid out the basics in another post. My situation is common but the details are unique so I'd not be hard to ID and feel more vulnerable.
No need to apologize for not being able to solve it...the fact you would if you could speaks to your character. My anecdotal evidence is the majority just don't care until it is them.
Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America
#256I cannot find it in my heart to admire the people who comment here proscriptively, without any attempt to signal empathy. Its understood few of us (myself included) will be doing anything to ameliorate this situation, and that empathy signalling is at best chest beating, but I still find the lack of compassion in the responses chilling. Yes, not smoking would reduce health risks and spend. so what? If you haven't tri…
This is how 99% of people are. I wouldn't have believed it until I became a victim. Even people who claim to love you and you have known for life. In the end people care about themselves and if you challenge their just-world view by suffering in front of them, or make them feel bad or guilty, they attack. The sad part is for those people nothing will change it but being forced into despair themselves and then it's to…
> This is how 99% of people are. I wouldn't have believed it until I became a victim. Even people who claim to love you and you have known for life.
I used to be a republican. Or Libertarian. Blame my parents, as I do. They're dyed-in-the-wool republicans/christians, where if you have bad happen, you must have deserved it. So they dont help because you should be able to rescue yourself.
One of their most shameful moments was how horrible they talked of welfare. They qualified for it years ago, and made a big point of pride that they never took it. It to them was this huge badge of shame.
So when I had really bad times, I did take it. And instead of hiding, I said so on Facebook. Boy, my parents hated that. Pity, cause I didnt care. And that it did help me get back up.
> In the end people care about themselves and if you challenge their just-world view by suffering in front of them, or make them feel bad or guilty, they attack. The sad part is for those people nothing will change it but being forced into despair themselves and then it's too late for both of us.
Indeed. Most in this country will never see that. Or they are that, and they'll never be here to say so. Hell, even the "richies" here in HN have had many discussions about it. And one idea that is mentioned is to sell services to them - and its summarily shot down. Why? "There's no money in helping poor people. They don't have money."
> I made an account just to comment on this issue after lurking for a long time but it's surely just another pointless action because it's the same story over and over. Empathy is not common.
We're around. We aren't popular, especially around here. People who focus on empathy simply cannot become capitalists. Because they have to make decisions that preserve human-ness over money, which is completely antithetical to the idea of Venture Capitalism, Capitalists, Big Business, Disruption, and on and on.
There are, of course, token projects that try to show that this class of people care, but in all seriousness, when I stop seeing a fistfull of dollars to X project for "UBI" and briefcases of dollars to lobbying, I'll know that equation has changed.
Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America
#257I'm not as bad off as this woman but the difference is irrelevant in the big picture as I won't survive either. I am in my 40s with no skills, a dead CV and the expectation that if I really wanted it I would just pull on my non existent bootstraps. Over a decade ago my life was ruined by medical mistakes. It cost me my career and everything I had worked for. It started a long road of being denied assistance from disa…
I don't give this advice often since for most people it's the "moving abroad" part that's the deal breaker, but since you mentioned you're doing it already, I'll throw out teaching english as a foreign language. Depending on the country/school you might need a small certificate from a month-long-type training course, or training from the school itself, but for the most part you just need to be able to speak English a…
I've done it part time in the past when I attempted this sort of desperation move that failed. It wasn't sustainable and took too much out of me being "switched on and sociable" like that. On top of that the barrier to entry even if I could manage is higher than people think...I dont have a bachelors degree and am old. Schools want young, degreed and flexible. If all you have is being a naive speaker you get private under the table lessons for cash that constantly cancel and every other broke expat is undercutting you for.
If I am ever going to earn it has to be remote and flexible but I just dont have the skills or stability etc to learn them so far. I've tried "DIY learn to code various things" sort of ideas before but something always interrupts it and I suck at it frankly. Then I read how old and inflexible people cannot get hired for anything and I get even more down. I have not heard a new idea that seemed workable in so long I cannot remember.
Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
We spent the last few decades dismantling whatever shambles of a social safety net we had, and we don't give a shit about people who can't afford to live. We say "get a job", and we just don't care.
Speak for yourself, I care deeply about the less fortunate - I just don't think that the social safety net is well designed or cost effective and I think pouring more money into it will just incentivize preying on the people caught in the net. I think there are solid ways to help people but that usually means investment in them, rather than increased dependence on the system. I'd gladly chip in for this lady to get a…
I think the question is. Do you believe that we can have good government policies that can be improved overtime. Or do you just want to have the smallest possible government.
Because the conversation in the right hasn't been about what policies are the best, it has been about getting rid of the government.
Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America
#259"...went to the already-crowded Dollar Store and Dollar General and bought dog food, dog treats, Slim Jims, three six-packs of Milwaukee’s Best, pruners for digging roots and a backpack to carry it all. What was the point in saving when, even if she could scrape together every free dollar, it would never be enough to change her life? So she bought the beer she had looked forward to, enjoyed its release and, as she di…
This sort of comment comes up every time there's an article about poverty.
It's an almost comical copy of itself, posted over and over again, written by people who have 0 frame of reference of what it's like to be poor.
Unsurprisingly, the value of such advice is still nil. Even if it was possible for these people to save a life-changing amount of money, they still won't see it here, on HN.
Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America
#260Not sure why this is an article. This is just normal life in many parts of rural America from Pennsylvania to Washington to Arizona. When I lived in West Virginia, I did note that the Washington Post had a weird fascination with the place. Whenever things got slow, you could expect some big exposé about what a bunch of uneducated, dirty bumpkins we were. WaPo even once held a contest to come up with a new slogan for…
This is why this is an article:
"And when that happens, they come to buyers such as Vance who dry and resell the roots to processors, which pulverize and resell them to natural-supplement manufacturers, which resell them as herbal products to retailers, which market them to health-conscious consumers."
To me, this is what the article was leading up to. The poorest Americans, the most vulnerable Americans, are breaking their backs (literally) and risking their lives (literally) with no benefits, while rich American are buying up the result for health products that may or may not have any real effect for them.
The real story here is that a significant portion of Americans have enough to money to essentially light it on fire on a regular basis while another significant portion is trying to stop from getting kicked off of SSDI.