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After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

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Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#221

Post by marak830 »

sulam wrote: post #155
noworld wrote: post #100

"...went to the already-crowded Dollar Store and Dollar General and bought dog food, dog treats, Slim Jims, three six-packs of Milwaukee’s Best, pruners for digging roots and a backpack to carry it all. What was the point in saving when, even if she could scrape together every free dollar, it would never be enough to change her life? So she bought the beer she had looked forward to, enjoyed its release and, as she di…

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you've never been truly poor. Speaking as someone who was raised extremely poor and took a while to get out of it even as an adult, you really have to have been there to understand the mindset. There are many factors that go into it, some of which are structural (when you're 51 yrs old earning https://newrepublic.com/article/89377/poverty-escape-psychol... ) As far as the do…

I have been there. I grew up in that situation and crawled out of it. I struggled for everything I have, and I saw many people who said it was too hard.

For those, I have zero sympathy. There is no reason to buy beer or cigarettes. They are just a crutch.

I have seen my father brought down by that, as well as cousins, sisters and brothers.

If the aforementioned 51yo was living by themselves ? I could almost see their reasoning. But then again, the reason I am not in that same position is by someone who, at the age of 45(approx), spent their time pushing me to learn and not join the other wastrel youth I was surrounded by.

Re: your last paragraph. Do you think that dog is being properly fed? A pet is a responsibility almost as difficult as a child in some ways, in others, moreso. I dread to think about that poor animals life in such conditions, nearly as much as I abhor the situation the articles subjects are living in.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#222

Post by dougk16 »

hestipod wrote: post #76

I'm not as bad off as this woman but the difference is irrelevant in the big picture as I won't survive either. I am in my 40s with no skills, a dead CV and the expectation that if I really wanted it I would just pull on my non existent bootstraps. Over a decade ago my life was ruined by medical mistakes. It cost me my career and everything I had worked for. It started a long road of being denied assistance from disa…

I don't give this advice often since for most people it's the "moving abroad" part that's the deal breaker, but since you mentioned you're doing it already, I'll throw out teaching english as a foreign language. Depending on the country/school you might need a small certificate from a month-long-type training course, or training from the school itself, but for the most part you just need to be able to speak English and have a heartbeat.

When I did it I met other teachers from every conceivable walk of life, some with a situation that sounds similar enough to yours. It's the most realistic way that someone down on their luck can "start fresh" in this day and age (IMO). Good luck.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#223

Post by rgrieselhuber »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #184
rgrieselhuber wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was indeed a depressing article. It would be interesting to see the data around this phenomenon - how many instances of this are occurring now vs. 10-20-30-40 years ago? Surely globalism is having some measurable impact on the capability of rural populations to find work and make a living. Curious about other factors as well.

"Surely globalism is having some measurable impact on the capability of rural populations to find work and make a living." Globalism has had a huge, positive impact on the ability of many rural populations to find work by allowing them to no longer be rural populations. Look at how the growth of outsourced manufacturing in China led to the largest migration in human history, as dirt-poor subsistence farmers were able…

Sure, that's great for China and the countries where globalism has positively impacted those rural populations but there isn't much accounting for those populations that are left behind at home.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#224

Post by KekDemaga »

alexanderstears wrote: post #118
whipoodle wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We spent the last few decades dismantling whatever shambles of a social safety net we had, and we don't give a shit about people who can't afford to live. We say "get a job", and we just don't care.

Speak for yourself, I care deeply about the less fortunate - I just don't think that the social safety net is well designed or cost effective and I think pouring more money into it will just incentivize preying on the people caught in the net. I think there are solid ways to help people but that usually means investment in them, rather than increased dependence on the system. I'd gladly chip in for this lady to get a…

I considered myself poor up until a couple years ago. The biggest kick in the balls each year was the vehicle inspection. If you live in a place without public transit you can't just go without a car. So I would be paying thousands of dollars to replace sensors that did little to improve the actually functionality of the car all in the name of getting rid of that check engine light. Most of the time I couldn't afford it and it was cheaper to just get a fine from time to time.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#225

Post by dragonwriter »

ForHackernews wrote: post #211
analog31 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the narratives of the last election was that the "elites" and our newspapers were oblivious to conditions facing working folks in the interior states. It was probably a false accusation, but it helped fuel a wave of self loathing that persists today. (A friend of mine blasted the NY Times for ignoring the Midwest on the same day that they published a lengthy story about Flint MI). Yet, when someone does write…

It might help if they hired local journalists or republished stories from local media sources. It's pretty ridiculous reading articles from coastal media that covers other parts of America as though it were a strange, foreign land, full of unfamiliar customs. Or maybe that really is how the NY/DC/SF/LA ruling class feels?

> It's pretty ridiculous reading articles from coastal media that covers other parts of America as though it were a strange, foreign land, full of unfamiliar customs.

To people outside the region covered, it is a strange, in many ways foreign, land, full of unfamiliar customs.

So is, say, California to outsiders; including New Yorkers, the idea of a culturally homogenous bicoastal society is a myth made up to sell a boogeyman to Middle America.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#226

Post by marak830 »

hestipod wrote: post #76

I'm not as bad off as this woman but the difference is irrelevant in the big picture as I won't survive either. I am in my 40s with no skills, a dead CV and the expectation that if I really wanted it I would just pull on my non existent bootstraps. Over a decade ago my life was ruined by medical mistakes. It cost me my career and everything I had worked for. It started a long road of being denied assistance from disa…

I don't know about anyone else here, but I'd like to hear your story.

I cant help you in any way, much to my own discredit, but if you want someone to speak to, or if you ever feel like sharing publicly, I'd be interested.

Side note, where are you moving to?

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#227

Post by notyourday »

ianai wrote: post #179
hpcjoe wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Rent seeking behavior, to extract more from tenants would be expected. This would spread. Causing other prices to rise.

There’s not going to be that much UBI to extract. Plus the assured UBI would empower people to move away from excise rent seekers.

UBI is going to go in the order of priority for:

* roof over ones' head, no matter how shitty

* food, no matter how shitty

* minimum utilities

* booze, drugs

* other

the first 3 would capture everything just as they do now.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#228

Post by dsfyu404ed »

jjawssd wrote: post #196
alexanderstears wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speak for yourself, I care deeply about the less fortunate - I just don't think that the social safety net is well designed or cost effective and I think pouring more money into it will just incentivize preying on the people caught in the net. I think there are solid ways to help people but that usually means investment in them, rather than increased dependence on the system. I'd gladly chip in for this lady to get a…

Are you suggesting that giving the poor huge amounts of money in one lump sum will help them more than giving them a smaller amount each month?

Yes. When you give someone with a terrible quality of life a lump sum they spend more of it on stuff that improves their quality of life than they would if it were distributes as small payments over time.

Look at what people do with tax returns. They spend it on big items that they couldn't justify budgeting and saving for otherwise.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#229

Post by marak830 »

dougk16 wrote: post #222
hestipod wrote: post #76

I'm not as bad off as this woman but the difference is irrelevant in the big picture as I won't survive either. I am in my 40s with no skills, a dead CV and the expectation that if I really wanted it I would just pull on my non existent bootstraps. Over a decade ago my life was ruined by medical mistakes. It cost me my career and everything I had worked for. It started a long road of being denied assistance from disa…

I don't give this advice often since for most people it's the "moving abroad" part that's the deal breaker, but since you mentioned you're doing it already, I'll throw out teaching english as a foreign language. Depending on the country/school you might need a small certificate from a month-long-type training course, or training from the school itself, but for the most part you just need to be able to speak English a…

I wouldn't recommend Japan for this btw(I live here currently), it's fairly difficult and cutthroat at the moment. I do have a friend in Taiwan that is trying to convince me to go over though fyi :-)

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#230

Post by toomuchtodo »

curun1r wrote: post #214
toomuchtodo wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'd probably see a lot more compassion among big-city liberals if these communities had embraced Bernie Sanders' agenda which would have redistributed a lot of wealth into their communities. Blue Blood Democrats pushed Bernie off the national stage attempting to elect Hillary Clinton, leaving the disadvantaged to only vote for the candidate who offered to champion their cause (Donald Trump). I don't fault most Tr…

> Blue Blood Democrats pushed Bernie off the national stage attempting to elect Hillary Clinton What the DNC did in last year's primary was shameful, but... > leaving the disadvantaged to only vote for the candidate who offered to champion their cause (Donald Trump) Laughs...he never championed their cause. He told them all their problems were because of minorities and that he'd return the country to a time of bigotr…

> Laughs...he never championed their cause.

This stance is part of the problem.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bring+jobs+back+trump+youtub...

https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+coal+jobs+youtube

https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+carrier+jobs+youtube

He promised the disadvantaged he'd get their jobs back from Mexico and China, he promised to bring coal jobs back. Whether he did those things or not doesn't matter. That's what he promised.

> It's hard to blame under-educated people for falling for Fox News propaganda, but you still can't deny their complicity in enabling their own situation. What they did in the general election to defeat Hilary they could have done in the Primary to support Bernie. They didn't.

I don't blame undereducated people. I blame people who care more about illegal immigrants than the disenfranchised citizens suffering in poverty in the US. I blame urban liberals who have no comprehension of the plight the poor in the US are suffering through. I blame upper management of the Democratic Party, who rigged the nomination (along with super delegates) against Bernie Sanders, and I wish nothing but terrible, terrible things on those people.

EDIT: Hillary Clinton is nowhere to be found after her crushing defeat, and Bernie Sanders is still out there every day fighting for universal healthcare and other pro-citizen policies (alongside Elizabeth Warren). We suffered a terrible loss because of Clinton's vanity and pride.

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