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After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

washingtonpost.com

71–80 of 346 posts

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#71

Not sure why this is an article. This is just normal life in many parts of rural America from Pennsylvania to Washington to Arizona. When I lived in West Virginia, I did note that the Washington Post had a weird fascination with the place. Whenever things got slow, you could expect some big exposé about what a bunch of uneducated, dirty bumpkins we were. WaPo even once held a contest to come up with a new slogan for…

I'm guessing it's an article because a lot of WaPo readers aren't aware that this is normal life in many parts of rural America. * edit: removed comma

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#72
post #8

That is so depressing. No wonder suicide rates are up. You know there's a difference between "give a man a fish" and "teach a man to fish", but what do you do when the fish are just gone ? It was mentioned in the article, but not extensively discussed. I think maybe the largest distinct segment of the economy in ex-coalcountry regions is now pharmaceuticals, legal and illegal. There's the legal root and mushroom hunt…

This is replicated all over the rust belt. One of the saddest portrayals of this is the photo essay, The Ruins of Detroit[1]. These once mighty economic engines have been silenced: manufacturing, coal, etc. What happens next is that the people who depend upon these industries to make a living, and live ... do less well of a job of this. Some argue that unions would help (they wouldn't), or anti-globalism would stop f…

> Giving money directly to people may help for a while, but is likely to spark inflation,

I take it you are referring to Universal Basic Income. It would only cause inflation if the most of the goods in their basket of unmet needs were supply constrained. But those commodities (i.e household goods), are not supply constrained at all, due in no small part to industrial efficiency and globalization, so they likely won't experience inflation.

Scarce valuable goods and services, like education and housing in areas of high demand (not rural WV), would see inflation, but even that would be mitigated somewhat by a progressive UBI benefit.

> Foolish policies that do not contemplate consequences for actions, apart from the groups that the politicos favor, help decimate regions like this.

This is pinning responsibility on the Obama administration for the failures of an industry that mismanaged itself with short term thinking, kicked the can down the road, and in doing so set up a no-win collapse situation that the government had to clean up because the alternative was likely much worse. The time bomb was ticking regardless of the political scenario. The 2008 recession just sped up the clock a bit at the end.

We have GM today because of the bailout. You might argue we should have let it all go down in flames and hopefully something would take it's place, buy that process would arguably be even more damaging to the local economy.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#73
post #67

So why can't we invest enough time and money in these people to make them engineers and technicians? Then they might be able to start shops that make and distribute the tourist trinkets mentioned by another poster. Why is the only solution that a large company that someone else creates moves in and provides low skill jobs?

The article indicates that at least some of the people doing this are well below any normal education level; and in fact, some are below functional mental health levels. This would need to be an education process beginning with encouraging birth control + providing quality education for the children who are born in these regions... and providing enough family financial support so the children didn't have to quit scho…

Even if my cousin/sibling was retarded/whatever the word du jour is today I think I'd give them a glass of water from inside rather then generously limit them to the garden hose.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#74
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oakland county just to the north of Detroit is one of the wealthiest (93/3100 by per capital income), most educated counties (44% have bachelors or higher; San Francisco is 54%) in the country. Washtenaw County, just to the west, is also high on both of those measures. Wayne County (where Detroit is located) is middle of the pack on those measures, not at the bottom.

This is because all the wealthy, educated, white people left Detroit proper in the late 1960s. Some moved north to Oakland County but Wayne County covers a lot of area other than Detroit itself. Washtenaw County is likely up there because of the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. The biggest hospital by gross revenue, third biggest by bed count is here, as are a whole bunch of research parks related to the automoti…

Right, my point is just that "Detroit" isn't really a great way to judge the Rust Belt. It is in a bad situation but doesn't characterize the region very well.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#75

>because disability payments on average amount to less than minimum wage, sometimes much less, ... Why is this? How are these people expected to survive, if they are disabled to the point that they can't hold down a job, and aren't allowed to work without the risk of losing their disability payments? Busking? I know that's been one traditional job for disabled people over the centuries, but I feel like we should be a…

We spent the last few decades dismantling whatever shambles of a social safety net we had, and we don't give a shit about people who can't afford to live. We say "get a job", and we just don't care.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#76
I'm not as bad off as this woman but the difference is irrelevant in the big picture as I won't survive either. I am in my 40s with no skills, a dead CV and the expectation that if I really wanted it I would just pull on my non existent bootstraps. Over a decade ago my life was ruined by medical mistakes. It cost me my career and everything I had worked for. It started a long road of being denied assistance from disability and other programs as I fell in every crack or got unfair adjudicators. I was not able to navigate the legal system for recompense as it was loaded on the side of the doctors despite common belief.

I survived this long on a partial pension from my job, a large savings since I lived frugally, and occasional assistance from others. My health has worsened, problems and needs have piled up, the occasional assistance has tricked off mostly, and I have no hope.

Most people ignore me, some give useless advice that makes them feel like they did something, and nothing changes. In the end it comes back to victim blaming and me not trying hard enough. People who have health, security, and lives and cannot imagine what it's like to live in so much pain and have no real options love to judge.

I have tried and considered all the usual advice like "learn to code" or "just do content writing" that comes along to disabled and isolated people. At my age and with the stability issues I have it's not realistic. People don't seem to get that. I should be getting assistance but this country doesn't do it like the rest of the first world so I am expected to suffer more just to stay alive in pain. I am moving abroad to a cheaper country to try and stretch my pension but I won't survive there either without earning and I cannot find any feasible way to earn that doesn't make things worse. Seeing people talk about people like me here in terms of "usefulness to society" enrages me. I served society...I did good in the world...that life was stolen and society rejected me. We are legion.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#77
post #72
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is replicated all over the rust belt. One of the saddest portrayals of this is the photo essay, The Ruins of Detroit[1]. These once mighty economic engines have been silenced: manufacturing, coal, etc. What happens next is that the people who depend upon these industries to make a living, and live ... do less well of a job of this. Some argue that unions would help (they wouldn't), or anti-globalism would stop f…

> Giving money directly to people may help for a while, but is likely to spark inflation, I take it you are referring to Universal Basic Income. It would only cause inflation if the most of the goods in their basket of unmet needs were supply constrained. But those commodities (i.e household goods), are not supply constrained at all, due in no small part to industrial efficiency and globalization, so they likely won'…

The biggest unmet need is housing, and in most areas that is definitely supply constrained. UBI will just go right into landlords pockets.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#78

Not sure why this is an article. This is just normal life in many parts of rural America from Pennsylvania to Washington to Arizona. When I lived in West Virginia, I did note that the Washington Post had a weird fascination with the place. Whenever things got slow, you could expect some big exposé about what a bunch of uneducated, dirty bumpkins we were. WaPo even once held a contest to come up with a new slogan for…

What part of WV?

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#79
post #43

>because disability payments on average amount to less than minimum wage, sometimes much less, ... Why is this? How are these people expected to survive, if they are disabled to the point that they can't hold down a job, and aren't allowed to work without the risk of losing their disability payments? Busking? I know that's been one traditional job for disabled people over the centuries, but I feel like we should be a…

Disability is often done on a percentage basis. If you're completely unable to work you get 100%. If you can't stand for a long time, but can sit and work, you might get 30% disability. Even at 100% it's not a lot of money, but I've heard it's enough to exist.

> but I've heard it's enough to exist.

How does health insurance/care work for these people? Do you automatically qualify for the government programs (MA?) if you are even partially disabled?

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#80
I cannot find it in my heart to admire the people who comment here proscriptively, without any attempt to signal empathy. Its understood few of us (myself included) will be doing anything to ameliorate this situation, and that empathy signalling is at best chest beating, but I still find the lack of compassion in the responses chilling. Yes, not smoking would reduce health risks and spend. so what? If you haven't tried to survive on minimum wage, I am very unsure your critique of their behaviour, which is essentially poverty shaming: you are only poor because [lazy | stupid] forms of logic, adds anything. If you walk over a begger muttering "get a job" you deserve contempt.

If you hate America, vote capitalist, randean individualism.

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