Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders

world.wng.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 146 posts

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#111

Post by fatjokes »

tim333 wrote: post #109
steve19 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not arguing for British colonization, but were they second class citizens? I believe they were British Subjects and therefor entitled to all the rights of any other British subject, or at least that of British subjects in any other British Dependent Territory.

I was in HK for a while under British rule. Us Brits had some advantages. Most obviously Brits had the right to live and study and the like in the UK whereas HK Chinese didn't. Also most of the better government funded jobs tended to go to Brits rather than HK Chinese. The HK Chinese were however much better off at the time under British rule than the mainland Chinese were under China's. China was kind of a mess at t…

> The HK Chinese were however much better off at the time under British rule than the mainland Chinese were under China's. China was kind of a mess at the time.

Perhaps materially, but on principle I don't think anyone would want to be considered second-class.

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#112

Post by yongjik »

fatjokes wrote: post #87

The people of Hong Kong are hardly winning supporters within China. Much is made of the disdain that Hong Kong people have for Chinese mainlanders, but less is mentioned that it is equally true in reverse. There is a commonly held belief (which I haven't researched and thus don't know if true or not) that they didn't make nearly as much of a ruckus when they were under British colonial rule, when they were de facto s…

> If you add in a racial dimension, where the Hong Kong people are Asians willing to submit to "whites" while fighting back against other Asians, adds to that disdain.

This sounds uncomfortably close to Imperial Japan's concept of "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere (大東亜共栄圏)", i.e., Asians should unite together and defend themselves against Western aggressors. Under some Asian banner, of course.

Oppression does not become more tolerable just because it's inflicted by "the same people".

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#113

Post by AnimalMuppet »

vzcx wrote: post #93
cryoshon wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's someone else's job to lead. i suppose it's my western point of view that makes me view this sentiment as blisteringly immature, if that is indeed what most chinese actually think. the stewardship of your country is always your job as a human being... even if you deny the responsibility, your country will act on your behalf, which means that you must control your leadership. if nobody else is fit to lead, it's y…

This strikes me as extremely confused. Chinese society is thousands of years old and has survived dynasty after dynasty, revolution after revolution. Perhaps their personal exit from politics is more earnest accumulated wisdom than blisteringly immature sentiment. Contrast with your statement on stewardship, duty, and responsibility. What is behind this besides sentiment?

The society has survived with some level of cultural continuity. A lot of people died in those revolutions and the falling of those dynasties, though. The "wisdom" that China learned from that is "do everything possible to prevent a revolution or a change in dynasty". A better wisdom might be "make the transitions easier so that they don't have to be violent". Peaceful transitions via election are an example of this.

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#114

Post by AnimalMuppet »

dilemma wrote: post #38
ashleycole wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say there's one non-violent way to fight back that could significantly hurt China. Host an open source repo on GitHub that highlights China's suppressed history, and use QQ/WeChat/Weibo/etc to spread it to Chinese locals. Do the same for Reddit, and every other western service that isn't blocked in China. (It would likely also help to leave 1-2 star app/play store reviews of WeChat and mention the fact that all p…

What have you done to spread the word about Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States?

Why, if he wants to do one thing, do you pretend that he has to do everything?

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#115

Post by khuey »

richardknop wrote: post #83
angry_octet wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a modern re-interpretation of inter-state conflict. In the past it was widely accepted that states could resolve disputes via war. By that standard, the UK could indeed keep HK indefinitely. A post-WWI agreement, called the Kellog-Briand Pact, sets the state for multilaterism, and outlaws war for conquest. This later develops into non-recognition of illegal conquests, war crimes, etc. So, in contrast to HK, T…

> This is a modern re-interpretation of inter-state conflict. In the past it was widely accepted that states could resolve disputes via war. By that standard, the UK could indeed keep HK indefinitely. By that standard PRC could send their military and take over Hong Kong and then keep it indefinitely. In a direct conflict UK would lose and they probably knew that which is why they left voluntarily. > A post-WWI agree…

Google Maps marks Taiwan as a separate nation ... Does that mean it's definitively not part of China?

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#116

Post by fatjokes »

yongjik wrote: post #112
fatjokes wrote: post #87

The people of Hong Kong are hardly winning supporters within China. Much is made of the disdain that Hong Kong people have for Chinese mainlanders, but less is mentioned that it is equally true in reverse. There is a commonly held belief (which I haven't researched and thus don't know if true or not) that they didn't make nearly as much of a ruckus when they were under British colonial rule, when they were de facto s…

> If you add in a racial dimension, where the Hong Kong people are Asians willing to submit to "whites" while fighting back against other Asians, adds to that disdain. This sounds uncomfortably close to Imperial Japan's concept of "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere (大東亜共栄圏)", i.e., Asians should unite together and defend themselves against Western aggressors. Under some Asian banner, of course. Oppression does n…

> Oppression does not become more tolerable just because it's inflicted by "the same people".

Agreed, but it shouldn't be less tolerable either, which is more of the point.

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#117

Post by ksec »

I dont know how to put this.

Inequality, is simply the cause of all these problem. That is everything from Spain, Brexit, US ( Trump ), and Hong Kong.

Housing prices is a big part of it. Because of QE, US has exported inflation around the world, along with China getting very rich since joining WTO, Pushes Asset prices to level unheard of.

Now some of you may think all these are irrelevant to the post above. Most people protest and wanted democracy not because it is a noble thing to do. They want better living standard, or for Hong Kong they simply want a place to live. Hong Kong housing prices / income is 50% to double of Vancouver. And people were calling Vancouver's prices insane.

They wanted their voice to be heard. And then hope some changes are being made. It was that simple, so they have hope, somewhere along the line in their future, they have hope some of these issues they have will be resolved.

Look at the world right now, politician in modern world is 10 times worst then what it was 10 - 20 years ago. They act a lot slower, but thanks to technology information flow has gotten million times faster. People's patient are wearing out. What do you expect them to do.

Read this pieces which descirbe the problem, and why some in Silicon Valley dont get it.

https://steveblank.com/2017/08/12/working-outside-the-tech-b...

At the end of the post.

I don’t know how the people I listened to and talked to voted, but it’s easy to see why they might feel as if no one in Washington is living their lives. And that the tech world is just as distant as Hollywood or Wall Street.

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#118

Post by barry-cotter »

vetinari wrote: post #74
barry-cotter wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Re: HK, China agreed to allow HK people to vote for the leaders by 2017 in return for sovereignty, and did not fulfill this promise, therefore there is no reason to recognize their sovereignty. Sure there is, short of nuclear war there’s no way to get the PRC’s government out of Hong Kong. And the PRC signed a treaty with the U.K., and the U.K.’s signature on a treaty is dirt. They guaranteed the indivisibility and…

> They guaranteed the indivisibility and independence of Cyprus and did nothing when the Greeks invaded, Turks, not Greeks > they guaranteed Ukraine’s borders along with Russia and the USA The Ukraine situation has much more nuance than you give credit for. > and never trust the U.K. or USA. As history shows, every superpower has interests, not friends.

You’re right, the Turks invaded before the Greeks managed to do so. I suppose the U.K. might have been the closest to sincere of the signatories to the Treaty of Guarantee. Let it be noted that the Turkish invasion was a response to a Greek government backed coup of the Cypriot government.

Fuck nuance. Never give up your nukes and never trust anyone for your vital interests.

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#120

Post by wu-ikkyu »

stale2002 wrote: post #97
wu-ikkyu wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What's China gonna do about it? If someone lives in America, then they have nothing to worry about. If you're on the internet, then you can be targeted by anyone across the world, no matter where you live. Psyops/social engineering, identity theft, DDoS, doxxing, blackmail...

Oh no, china is going to come after me for posting information about them on the internet that they don't like! Oh no, my anonymous github account will be hacked! Seriously, this shit doesn't happen. There are too many people doing too many things in the world for a government across the world to do much of anything to anyone. I am not ever going to live my life in fear of something dumb, like that. I am going to cri…

>Seriously, this shit doesn't happen. There are too many people doing too many things in the world for a government across the world to do much of anything to anyone

You don't think governments hack their enemies?

Post reply on HN