Live data from Hacker News

China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

sentinel.tw

101–110 of 158 posts

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#101
post #86
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They arbitrate part of the hague conventions. the hague conventions make up part of international law. It's a court of arbitration, your comparison to the UN is apples to oranges, in fact, the UN isn't really involved in international law setting.

I am not comparing it to the UN, but how it is referred to in the media is often misleading, especially the "in the Hague" part. Quite a few articles even dropped that bit and just referred to it as an "UN court/tribunal". It gave the impression that China is defying the UN, not saying that China wouldn't do something like that, but they didn't in this instance. And because it is a court of arbitration, both sides ha…

>It gave the impression that China is defying the UN, not saying that China wouldn't do something like that, but they didn't in this instance.

You're right that they _would_ do something like that! ;) In fact, they did in this case. I'll explain below.

>And because it is a court of arbitration, both sides have to agree to have their dispute resolved by arbitration in the first place. China did not agree to it.

Not quite. China has ratified the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) [0], which designates the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague [1] as the default means of dispute resolution between parties. China knew this going in, and agreed to it when they signed the treaty. This court ruled against China on the matter of the Nine-Dash Line [2]. By defying the court's ruling, they defy the UNCLOS, and thus the UN.

You're technically right that in the case of the Nine-Dash Line, China did not agree to participate in arbitration. However, arbitration was allowed to proceed without their cooperation according to the rules of the UNCLOS, which China had already signed. Treaty law doesn't only apply when it's convenient.

[0] https://pca-cpa.org/en/services/arbitration-services/unclos/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Court_of_Arbitration... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-Dash_Line#Arbitral_tribun...

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#102
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wow, shocking to read of such deep capitulation from a country like Norway China forces every country that it has normalised relations with to adhere to the 'One China' policy. Does your country have a Chinese embassy in it? Guess what, your country adheres to the 'One China' policy too.

Pretty sure other countries' recognition of (which does not necessarily equate to acceptance or support of) China's position on this do not extend to the level of sovereign embarrassment and capitulation outlined in the post.

Pretty sure you are mistaken. All countries that have normalized relations with China have to officially abide by the One China policy. If not, they will pull trade, or go to a state of de facto war with you.

This is why Canada does not have a Taiwanese embassy. Instead, there are Taiwanese Trade offices which act unofficially as embassies in everything but name.

In all countries with Chinese embassies, this is the case.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#103
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway and Iceland don't need to become full EU members for a China FTA creating conflicts between them and the EU. There's already overlap between products covered under Iceland's FTA with China and its FTA with the EU/EEA, but in practice it doesn't matter much because any gains from lower import duties are negated by expensive shipping from Iceland. If Norway signs a similar agreement an EEA country with open land…

"If Norway signs a similar agreement an EEA country with open land borders with the EU will have a FTA with China. ... Norway become a shipping and distribution hub for Chinese goods into the EU" No, it doesn't work like that. Norway is not a member of the European customs union. Goods moving between Norway and the EU are subject to customs checks and, potentially, tariffs. You can't just trans-ship Chinese goods lan…

I understand that Norway doesn't have duty-free import of goods into the EU. What I'm referring to is that the existing tolls and import duties weren't negotiated with the assumption that Norway has tariff-free access to the biggest producer of cheap goods in the world.

I elaborated a bit on this in a sibling comment[1], but let's say for example that the import duties on electric drills from China into the EU are set at 30%, but the same duty for Norway is 10%.

After signing a FTA with China Norway can simply import the drills at 0%, then re-export them to Germany at a rate of 10%.

Even if they can't simply re-export finished products a Norwegian company could buy cheap Chinese parts for making drills, then finish constructing them domestically and export them to the EU.

Even if they don't directly re-export anything from China Norwegian industry would be more competitive than its neighbors, e.g. a Norwegian paper mill might buy cheap acids for industrial from China that their neighbors in Sweden don't have access to. This would make Norwegian paper cheaper than Swedish paper, and Sweden would pressure the EU to adjust its import duties accordingly.

Thus the EU will start having to either treat Norway and Iceland more like China in terms of tariffs and import duties, or to treat China more like Norway and Iceland.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15409391

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#104
post #58
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has never recognized the One China policy or China's claim over Taiwan. Instead, the US merely acknowledges China's position. Of course, as a superpower, you have a little bit more negotiating leverage. However, China's only been successful at bullying countries into recognizing some of its more absurd positions because it has negotiated on bilateral bases, where in almost every case China holds significantly…

> If the US, the EU, the UK, Canada, Japan, and Australia collectively took a position and agreed to provide support for any country that was individually attacked or sanctioned by China for its position, then you'd probably see a much more restrained policy response from China (although their rhetoric would likely be quite loud). cold war version 2? nice try.

I'm not sure how a Cold War 2 wouldn't be preferable to a CCP-centric world.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#105
post #84
post #8

I dont understand the word Forcing here. Norway had a choice to continue denying The one China policy. Putting pressure on Norway thru various means is not forcing. Forcing would be done via a military operation leaving little choice.

I'm not sure I agree with you, but for what it's worth I do understand the point you are making. You are making a separation between types of pressure which are existential and those which are not. Norway could have accepted the lower exports on fish (less than 1% of their GDP) and continued on while snubbing China, but it was more beneficial to them economically to concede. However, this isn't existential because ev…

There are 2 fishing industries in Norway. One is traditional one and another one is factory farming of fish. The latter appeared around 1980, earned a lot of money and bought disproportionate amount of influence. The industry treats the fish in absolutely evil way, a complete opposite of how traditional fish men relate to the fish.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#106
post #87

How did Liu Xiaobo become so important? So much happening for this guy expressing his opinions, wtf?! If an American or someone from most European countries would express similar opinions wrt his own country's government... nobody would blink a fucking eye, regardless of who gave him what prize... (And we all know that Nobels for anything except science are 100% bullshit. Heck, I'd even question the relevance of the…

He risked his neck to advocate peacefully for democracy in Communist China (PRC)

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#107

International "meta"-law is so ridiculous. I mean the customary rules concerning recognition of states, embassies, passports [1], etc.. If I was ruler of a small country, I would say "of course we won't recognize Taiwan. We will foobar them. They don't get an embassy, but they get a blah ." (which de facto will be exactly the same thing) [1] Concerning passports, no matter how radically different states are, the US,…

> If I was ruler of a small country, I would say "of course we won't recognize Taiwan. We will foobar them. They don't get an embassy, but they get a blah." (which de facto will be exactly the same thing) That might not be a smart move. Small nations get a lot out of banding together and acting as a bloc. If you foobar Taiwan, it might freeze you out of diplomatic channels that are more important to you than wanking…

What do you think "wanking off" means? I mean literally that phrase, because I don't think you meant to use it in this context.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#108
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I was ruler of a small country, I would say "of course we won't recognize Taiwan. We will foobar them. They don't get an embassy, but they get a blah." (which de facto will be exactly the same thing) That might not be a smart move. Small nations get a lot out of banding together and acting as a bloc. If you foobar Taiwan, it might freeze you out of diplomatic channels that are more important to you than wanking…

Taiwan is quite used to countries working around China like this. Only 20 countries have formal diplomatic relations with Taiwan, none of them very influential.

And those that do use the official name of Taiwan's gov't, the Republic of China... which makes PRC look bad since they have a "China" across the strait with democracy and freedom.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#109
post #41

I live in Norway. There has been pressure for some time on the government to do this because of the salmon exports. Fishing is not as big as oil, but it is still an important part of the economy here. Losing China as a customer meant bad news for a lot of folks in the fishing industry here. Also, since Norway is trying (unsuccessfully so far, but still they are trying) to lessen dependence on oil, this loss mattered…

> Also, since Norway is trying (unsuccessfully so far, but still they are trying) to lessen dependence on oil, this loss mattered even more than you might think at first glance.

On that topic, I wonder if China offered any assurances regarding support for Norway's territorial claims in the Arctic Circle.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#110
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Independence and ineptitude .

Ignorance is why you are being down voted, the man spent his entire time in office at war if that is deserving of a peace prize I'm not sure what you'd have to do to not deserve one.

The military, Wall Street, healthcare financial services, and government (size, reach of power), win after every single election.

I don't think Obama is a particularly good or bad man, I think he's just a good politician who went in there and did "what he was supposed to do." Stupid and evil wars existed before and after him. He didn't do anything to fix it, but he didn't start it either. The President doesn't have as much power as we may believe.

Post reply on HN