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China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

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Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#61

Post by imron »

Geekette wrote: post #57

Wow, shocking to read of such deep capitulation from a country like Norway, which positions itself as egalitarian and goes the extra mile in various areas such as excluding certain companies from investment by its global sovereign fund on ethical grounds[1]. This was also chilling to read: "And when the Dalai Lama was invited to Norway in 2014 by the Norwegian Nobel Committee to celebrate his receiving the Nobel Peac…

> Wow, shocking to read of such deep capitulation from a country like Norway

China forces every country that it has normalised relations with to adhere to the 'One China' policy. Does your country have a Chinese embassy in it? Guess what, your country adheres to the 'One China' policy too.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#62

Post by DRAOBE »

doktrin wrote: post #38
rqs wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese here. In China, lot's of people who originally supported 刘晓波[0] shuts up after Obama's winning . So, yes, at least in China, Nobel Peace Prize is nothing now. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Xiaobo

Perhaps somewhat ironically, this is an illustration of the committee's political independence. Unlike Liu Xiaobo's prize, that of Obama was controversial and broadly unpopular within Norway.

Independence and ineptitude.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#63

Post by imron »

captainmuon wrote: post #51

International "meta"-law is so ridiculous. I mean the customary rules concerning recognition of states, embassies, passports [1], etc.. If I was ruler of a small country, I would say "of course we won't recognize Taiwan. We will foobar them. They don't get an embassy, but they get a blah ." (which de facto will be exactly the same thing) [1] Concerning passports, no matter how radically different states are, the US,…

> They don't get an embassy, but they get a blah.

Other countries do this already and not just small ones.

For example, in Taiwan, Australia has the "Australia Office" [0] which is essentially an embassy in all but name. Other countries have similar things.

0: http://australia.org.tw/tpei/home.html

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#64

Post by semperdark »

imron wrote: post #61
Geekette wrote: post #57

Wow, shocking to read of such deep capitulation from a country like Norway, which positions itself as egalitarian and goes the extra mile in various areas such as excluding certain companies from investment by its global sovereign fund on ethical grounds[1]. This was also chilling to read: "And when the Dalai Lama was invited to Norway in 2014 by the Norwegian Nobel Committee to celebrate his receiving the Nobel Peac…

> Wow, shocking to read of such deep capitulation from a country like Norway China forces every country that it has normalised relations with to adhere to the 'One China' policy. Does your country have a Chinese embassy in it? Guess what, your country adheres to the 'One China' policy too.

Perhaps, but in many cases recognition that there should be "One China" also comes with the implication that Taiwan's government should be the one ruling the "One China".

Did you read the linked article? Norway's statements were absolutely humiliating, most countries absolutely do not go that far.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#65

Post by andai »

robert_foss wrote: post #48
andrepd wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But here the pressure wasn't "irresistible"; they were not being threatened or attacked. They would just be making less money than they do this way. I hardly call that irresistible.

Financial force is force.

What is it called when all it takes to convince you to do something you consider unethical is the promise of money?

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#66

Post by doktrin »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #53
doktrin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comparison seems a bit off to me. The UK is more than 10x the size of all EEA members combined. The EEA exists / works because its members are largely peripheral. The UK by contrast is a regional superpower. On this basis alone - particularly when accounting for Brussels' massive bruised ego - it was always a bit unrealistic to expect a neat and tidy new EEA-style trade agreement between the UK and the EU. Not o…

"The UK is more than 10x the size of all EEA members combined. The EEA exists / works because its members are largely peripheral." My guess is that by EEA you refer to those members that are not already part of the EU, although technically the EEA includes both EU members and countries with a special agreement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area

Yeah, that's correct. In my experience 'EEA' is a well understood shorthand for 'non-EU EEA members', since that's the context under which 'EEA' is most often used.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#67

Post by klunger »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #52
klunger wrote: post #41

I live in Norway. There has been pressure for some time on the government to do this because of the salmon exports. Fishing is not as big as oil, but it is still an important part of the economy here. Losing China as a customer meant bad news for a lot of folks in the fishing industry here. Also, since Norway is trying (unsuccessfully so far, but still they are trying) to lessen dependence on oil, this loss mattered…

> Fishing is not as big as oil, but it is still an important part of the economy Meh. It employs 7k-10k people and contributes 0.7% of the economy. That is chickenfeed, and a particularly dumb thing to give up their principles over - particularly because processed fish are a fungible commodity and could be sold for the same price outside of China.

It is roughly 5.4% of exports http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/nor/#Exports

Does not compare to oil I guess, but I would not call it chickenfeed. It probably does get oversized media attention though, which is why this has so much domestic support.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#68

Post by Geekette »

imron wrote: post #61
Geekette wrote: post #57

Wow, shocking to read of such deep capitulation from a country like Norway, which positions itself as egalitarian and goes the extra mile in various areas such as excluding certain companies from investment by its global sovereign fund on ethical grounds[1]. This was also chilling to read: "And when the Dalai Lama was invited to Norway in 2014 by the Norwegian Nobel Committee to celebrate his receiving the Nobel Peac…

> Wow, shocking to read of such deep capitulation from a country like Norway China forces every country that it has normalised relations with to adhere to the 'One China' policy. Does your country have a Chinese embassy in it? Guess what, your country adheres to the 'One China' policy too.

Pretty sure other countries' recognition of (which does not necessarily equate to acceptance or support of) China's position on this do not extend to the level of sovereign embarrassment and capitulation outlined in the post.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#69

Post by DRAOBE »

avar wrote: post #54
vidarh wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway at least have no current interest in EU membership. Support for EU membership has for a long time been so low (last year polls indicated 71% no, compared to an almost even result in the '94 referendum) that there's no prospect of another EU referendum anytime soon.

Norway and Iceland don't need to become full EU members for a China FTA creating conflicts between them and the EU. There's already overlap between products covered under Iceland's FTA with China and its FTA with the EU/EEA, but in practice it doesn't matter much because any gains from lower import duties are negated by expensive shipping from Iceland. If Norway signs a similar agreement an EEA country with open land…

Uh, what sort of conflict do you think China could provoke? I have a hard time seeing a free salmon treaty with China giving rise to more conflict than normal neighbor disputes.

If Norway started selling all its oil to China, then we'd have something. But the EU borders Norway, and China doesn't so there isn't much in favour of it. In addition, China doesn't border the EU, so I don't think it sees much value in a divided EU (as opposed to Russia). To them it is probably more interesting to distance the EU from the US.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#70

Post by ttflee »

shaobo wrote: post #44
whatyoucantsay wrote: post #17

There are two notable points in this piece: 1) China suspended normal diplomatic relations with Norway, tossed out a free trade agreement, largely shut down fishing imports from the country and made it far more difficult for Norwegians to get visas to travel study or work in China. All of this was because of an activist being awarded a Nobel Peace Prize, which is process controlled a foundation, not directly by the N…

It is also worth noting that the Permanent Court of Arbitration is only in the Hague, it is not an UN agency, and not a court in the traditional sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Court_of_Arbitration

Permanent Court of Arbitration has a longer history than UN does.
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