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Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

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Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#151

Post by s73ver_ »

KGIII wrote: post #149
s73ver_ wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. And that doesn't address my question. Why do I care that our businesses are more profitable if I don't get any of the benefits of it? What do I get for that "more profitable"? Do I get to work less? Do I get more vacation? Do I get more stability? Do I get more pay? The answer to all of these is no. So what do I get?

You don't have to care, though you might be grateful that they are profitable and thus able to pay your salary. Given that you're on HN, you're probably paid quite well and better than you would be in other countries. So, it's in your best interest that they continue to be profitable. Your benefit is contined employment and the benefits that go along with that. If you want to get more from a business profiting more,…

"You don't have to care, though you might be grateful that they are profitable and thus able to pay your salary."

Companies in Europe are profitable, too.

"So, it's in your best interest that they continue to be profitable."

I wasn't asking why I should care that they're profitable. I was asking why I should care why they're more profitable.

"You are, of course, perfectly entitled to not care one iota. You don't need my permission to do that."

So your answer to my original question of why I should care that companies in the US are more profitable while offering crappier benefits to employees than European companies is that I really shouldn't; and that it's a raw deal for everyone else.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#152

Post by a3n »

corpMaverick wrote: post #117
a3n wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, automation will replace people in a lot of jobs. That worries me, as an individual subject to that disruption, and as a citizen/steward of my country. But I've also been wondering if there might be a new kind of job coming, "person who does a new thing until it can be understood well enough to be 'autoficialized'." Artificial intelligence may be great at running complex but well bounded problems, but intelligenc…

In addition to your point let me provide an example. We can get machines to cook burgers or pizzas because the task is bounded and there is an economy of scale to do it. But it is a lot harder to build a machine that can cook anything.

But similar to a hamburger machine, it's relatively easy to build a machine that can cook what's on the menu, or to buy the small number of machines required.

"Sorry, no fajitas today, the machine's service has been called. We just got a crepes machine ..."

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#154

Post by jacobush »

logfromblammo wrote: post #88
jacobush wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! Nothing will happen that a global war or two can’t sort out.

Every displaced worker can retrain as an infantry soldier within weeks.

Every displaced worker can be repurposed as training targets for the drones and then upcycled to Soylent Green after the training session!

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#155

Post by Swinx43 »

switch007 wrote: post #134
Swinx43 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your assessment of being a contractor in the UK. I work as an IT contractor in the UK as well and have been a permanent employee before that. Permanent members of staff seldom get the same money as skilled contractors and have to put up with a lot more restrictions around holiday and work life balance. I would equate a contractor in the UK to being the equivalent experience of being a consultant without…

Any tips for transitioning to contracting? Should you be in a certain place (experience, ability, etc) or is just about taking a leap of faith?

I would be happy to give some assistance and guidance if you would like. Get in touch with me, my email is in my profile.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#156

Post by Swinx43 »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #55
zimpenfish wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, contractors have to sort out the mess that permanent guys have made.

And when the contract ends, the permanent guys have to sort out the mess the contractor made.

I get what you are saying. There are plenty of sub par contractors out there. Unfortunately there are just as many sub par permanent employees and consulting firms.

I have seen terrible disasters developed by every single sort of person. The issue normally comes when we as developers seem more interested in doing "clever" things at the expense of making sure we code for maintainability and support ability.

Combine the above with a large part of our community being terrible at communicating and you have a recipe for confusion and chaos.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#157

Post by zimpenfish »

Swinx43 wrote: post #156
Kurtz79 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when the contract ends, the permanent guys have to sort out the mess the contractor made.

I get what you are saying. There are plenty of sub par contractors out there. Unfortunately there are just as many sub par permanent employees and consulting firms. I have seen terrible disasters developed by every single sort of person. The issue normally comes when we as developers seem more interested in doing "clever" things at the expense of making sure we code for maintainability and support ability. Combine th…

> developers seem more interested in doing "clever" things

[looks at current codebase]

> at the expense of making sure we code for maintainability and support ability

[cries, etc.]

(The current codebase is a masterpiece of cleverness - a single person's homegrown ORM and ObjectModel in Perl. Unfortunately that also means it's an overly complex, horribly unreadable, utterly unmaintainable piece of crap.)

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#158

Post by speedplane »

danschumann wrote: post #128

Any time you can earn more than you spend, and take advantage of compound interest (index funds, etc), you could eventually become rich, i.e. upward mobility. In terms of jobs, it seems there are fewer guarantees and fewer formulas to follow (you used to be able to work somewhere for 30 years and count on a pension). Upward mobility is still alive and well, but it's through self education and using the internet. Cons…

Agreed, upward mobility exists, it just takes forever, literally a full lifetime. Chances are you won't really benefit from it, either you'll have a nice retirement or your kids will get a better start.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#159

Post by Nursie »

switch007 wrote: post #134
Swinx43 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your assessment of being a contractor in the UK. I work as an IT contractor in the UK as well and have been a permanent employee before that. Permanent members of staff seldom get the same money as skilled contractors and have to put up with a lot more restrictions around holiday and work life balance. I would equate a contractor in the UK to being the equivalent experience of being a consultant without…

Any tips for transitioning to contracting? Should you be in a certain place (experience, ability, etc) or is just about taking a leap of faith?

You shoulf have a buffer of about 3-4 months money put away. You may not need it but there is always a significant delay between doing the work and actually getting paid.

After that, just have the confidence to push for it, to ignore the recruiters who will tell you you won't be able to - they just want the commission for placing you in perm work - yeah. I waited until I had about 12 years experience. I don't think I needed to wait that long.

Re: Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility?

#160

Post by s73ver_ »

KGIII wrote: post #150
s73ver_ wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What new tasks? And how are these people going to train to work on these new tasks if they've just lost their job, and therefore their ability to pay rent and buy food? The "progress" argument doesn't mean much from people who aren't going to have to bear the negative effects of it.

We've had this same conversation since the start of the industrial revolution. Each time, people have insisted that this time it was different and sure to be the end of civilization. Famously, we called them Luddites. As for predicting what jobs will be made available, that's a fool's errand. Nobody would have been able to accurately predict the many jobs we regularly do today. At one point, the expectation for the t…

No. Your tone is incredibly incivil, and ignores the entirety of my point. Nowhere did I say we shouldn't have progress. Nowhere did I say progress was bad. I pointed out that we need to watch out for those who are going to be displaced because of that progress.

Your outright dismissal of others who are going to suffer because of the progress is extremely insensitive. Sadly, this is to be expected from this community. People who push "disruption for disruption's sake," and give no thought to those who are effected, because they feel they will never have to deal with the negative consequences.

Next time this comes up, do not outright dismiss people as being "against progress."

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