Live data from Hacker News

How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

villagevoice.com

101–110 of 168 posts

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#101
post #51
post #22

Save a life, bin that knife. Only criminals need knives. /british-persona That said, shouldn't the retailers be prosecuted for being in legal possession of the item prior to sale? They legally own all of the products in their inventory

> Only criminals need knives. And cooks, hunters, electricians, plumbers, casual restaurant goers etc. Try slicing your steak with a fork or a spoon next time.

Yup, also if you've ever lived in the country. Cutting bale twine, rope and whole host of other things.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#102

This is a single symptom of a larger issue, namely an excess of laws to the point that any law can be arbitrarily used to prosecute you if you are of an unwanted class, race, etc. Add on top the police quota system and you have a recipe of this type of injustice that runs the gamut, from antiquidated knife laws to the drug war. To me, this is largely a result of lawyers fucking ruining everything they touch, and then…

Yup, I own a few Benchmades and aside from one with a physical lock[1](which happens to be a "spring loaded, assisted knife", which is not illegal) all of them could be considered gravity knives by nature of their locking mechanism. However things like Kershaw's SpeedSafe[2] and other assisted knives are totally legal and exempt, it's crazy.

The general wisdom in the knife community is to not make a scene or rock the boat if you've got any pocket knife on you and UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES use a pocket knife to defend yourself(even under thread of life or limb). There's a metric ton of laws about using knives and weapons(even in self defense, largely tied to gang enforcement) and prosecutors tend to aggressively pursue them. In a lot of cases you'd be under less legal jeopardy drawing a pistol with a CCW than a small pocket knife.

Knife laws are also enforced on a per-city basis(aside from the assisted knives which are generally state-level). So one town might have a length limit of 3" where the next town over might be 3.5". It's almost impossible to not run afoul of some local ordinance.

[1] http://www.benchmade.com/emissary-3-5-family.html

[2] https://kershaw.kaiusaltd.com/technology

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#103
post #59
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a few years back, but I first learned about this in a documentary that had police officers practicing to flip knives open and teaching each other how to do it with different brands/styles of knives. Try as I might, I can't come up with an ethical justification for this behavior. They were literally training to make knives do things beyond their design, for the purpose of charging people who had no intent to do…

If we rethought whatever quota system is in place for arrests it would be a great help. Cops need to make lots of arrests, this is an easy arrest to make, and the cop is a step closer to the quota. It seems to create a system where people arrest people for profit instead of to "serve and protect."

I had typed out a huge response about quotas and how they actually, at least as I have been told, use something more insane. I deleted it, to see if I could be less wordy.

I believe quotas are illegal, at least in many jurisdictions. So, they use something even worse. They use performance metrics. This perversely incentivized ever-increasing arrests, citations, and summons, by becoming a heavily weighted consideration for raises and promotions.

They are, theoretically, supposed to pay attention to those who don't perform at about the average. Instead, they only scrutinize those who are below average. They promote those who have performance metrics that are above average.

A search for 'police performance metrics' is illuminating.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#104

This is a single symptom of a larger issue, namely an excess of laws to the point that any law can be arbitrarily used to prosecute you if you are of an unwanted class, race, etc. Add on top the police quota system and you have a recipe of this type of injustice that runs the gamut, from antiquidated knife laws to the drug war. To me, this is largely a result of lawyers fucking ruining everything they touch, and then…

It's absolutely absurd that "arrest quotas" are even a thing in America. The job of the police in most first world countries is to protect the people, not make arrests for ludicrous laws. I don't want my tax dollars funding police officers camping out on highways to hand out speeding tickets or arresting random people for having pocket knives on them. No wonder Americans have such an adversarial relationship with the…

Lol they're common in other parts of the world too, e.g. in Germany. They dont officially exist, rather informally, and end up in the UN complaining about racial profiling by cops.

Pro tip, avoid German train stations if you're not white.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#105

This is a single symptom of a larger issue, namely an excess of laws to the point that any law can be arbitrarily used to prosecute you if you are of an unwanted class, race, etc. Add on top the police quota system and you have a recipe of this type of injustice that runs the gamut, from antiquidated knife laws to the drug war. To me, this is largely a result of lawyers fucking ruining everything they touch, and then…

Yup, I own a few Benchmades and aside from one with a physical lock[1](which happens to be a "spring loaded, assisted knife", which is not illegal) all of them could be considered gravity knives by nature of their locking mechanism. However things like Kershaw's SpeedSafe[2] and other assisted knives are totally legal and exempt, it's crazy. The general wisdom in the knife community is to not make a scene or rock the…

What about boxcutters?

Long time ago, acquaintance was assaulted/mugged on a platform and defended self with a boxcutter. Subsequently had to go to trial and defend actions. IIRC, took a while to get things cleared even tough it was self-defense. But maybe it wasn't as onerous as it could have been with a real knife.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As defined by New York, basically any modern folding knife. If you can open it one-handed, it’s a “gravity knife”. I went to NY last year. I could have been prosecuted under this law.

Spring assist folding knives don't meet the NY definition of a gravity knife even though they are easier to deploy than many thumb stud knives. They can be purchased in the city.

"Under Penal Law 265.01, a gravity knife is defined as any knife that opens with “the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force” and has a blade that locks into place by means of a “button, spring, lever, or other device.”

Courts have interpreted that to mean that any knife that can be opened with a “wrist flick” — a movement something like what a fan dancer might do — qualifies as a gravity knife. A long list of court cases have turned on exactly that question, which seems straightforward enough."

I think spring assisted folding knives do meet this definition, and the article also does mention many folding knives sold in the city also meet this definition

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait a minute, I have one of those and they're hard enough to open two-handed, your arm would break the sound barrier before you could flick this thing with enough speed to open it one-handed. Is this really considered a gravity knife?

Even holding the blade?

You can't really hold the blade, the blade in mine is so recessed that you can only open it by putting your thumbnail in a notch on the blade, but which is pretty hard and takes effort. I can definitely not hold the entire thing from the bit of blade that protrudes.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#108

Cops get a bad rap, but the DAs haven’t come under fire. They knowingly ruin many many more innocent lives than cops. And unlike cops who may shoot in a poor split second decision, DAs knowingly and willingly destroy the lives of the innocent for their own personal gain. It’s time we put blame where it is due.

DAs are rewarded for convictions, the heavier the charge the better. Police are rewarded for arrests.

Only one of those two drops the blight of a criminal record onto someone's future.

What we as citizens can do is demand that elected officials hold DAs accountable for their wrongful convictions.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#109

This is a single symptom of a larger issue, namely an excess of laws to the point that any law can be arbitrarily used to prosecute you if you are of an unwanted class, race, etc. Add on top the police quota system and you have a recipe of this type of injustice that runs the gamut, from antiquidated knife laws to the drug war. To me, this is largely a result of lawyers fucking ruining everything they touch, and then…

> I shouldn't talk about GPL licensing because only lawyers understand licensing!

Clearly that person has never read the GPL, all of the legalese is clearly explained in the license. The GPL has always been my go to as an example of an easy to read and understand legal document.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#110

This is a single symptom of a larger issue, namely an excess of laws to the point that any law can be arbitrarily used to prosecute you if you are of an unwanted class, race, etc. Add on top the police quota system and you have a recipe of this type of injustice that runs the gamut, from antiquidated knife laws to the drug war. To me, this is largely a result of lawyers fucking ruining everything they touch, and then…

I have one of the Luftwaffe ones. If you're hanging upside down in a tree, it's great to have a knife that you can open with one hand.

takes notes
Post reply on HN