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A “right to repair” movement tools up

economist.com

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Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#221

Post by 4ad »

amelius wrote: post #49
15charlimit wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are some downsides. You can say that again. Just look at the John Deere debacle that's been happening for an exceptionally good example of why this is a terrible idea. Physical good = ownership = full end-user control. Anything less is dangerous for consumers.

The problem is that keeping things the old way apparently doesn't work out too well for the environment. Moving to services aligns the incentives such that the environment can benefit, and the use of products can become cheaper too. So, imho, what we should do is give customers who use services better rights.

Yeah, companies forcing people to buy new crap all the time because the old stuff is discontinued and customers are locked out from fixing it themselves is definitely good for the environment.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#223

Post by yourapostasy »

mastax wrote: post #81
feelin_googley wrote: post #65

"In the future, repairability is likely to become even more of an issue, says Kyle Wiens, iFixit's chief executive. Not only do firms want customers to use authorised dealers, but a growing number of products are also no longer stand-alone devices , but rather delivery vehicles for services that generate additional revenues. " Gee, I wonder who started that trend?

Gillette? Having started to use a safety razor recently, I'm starting to think that the impetus for moving to cartridge razors was just to make the refills harder to interchange and less of a commodity.

Along similar lines, if you get isopropyl alcohol (I use 90% grade, but 70% may also work), after using your razor, dry it off, and spray your razor with the alcohol, the alcohol displaces any remaining water and sanitizes at the same time. It makes the razor last longer. Works on electric razors, too.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#224

Post by bionoid »

madeofpalk wrote: post #82
bionoid wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're giving you a remanufactured iPhone using reused internal parts like screws or shielding And, unless something changed recently, batteries. My iPhone 5 had a faulty charging socket, which got worse. A month after unboxing, it would no longer charge at all, so I handed it in for repair. Got back a unit with half the battery life and a faulty charging socket. I gave it to a good GSoC student across the world a…

Consumable parts are and have never been reused. Just sounds like you had a faulty part, rather than a reused one.

> Consumable parts are and have never been reused

Can you substantiate that? It's clearly at odds with my experience, neither of my two replacement units had a battery life that even came close to unboxed unit.

I just don't buy that every serviced device gets a new battery.

(I am in Europe by the way)

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#225

Post by turk184 »

amelius wrote: post #49
15charlimit wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are some downsides. You can say that again. Just look at the John Deere debacle that's been happening for an exceptionally good example of why this is a terrible idea. Physical good = ownership = full end-user control. Anything less is dangerous for consumers.

The problem is that keeping things the old way apparently doesn't work out too well for the environment. Moving to services aligns the incentives such that the environment can benefit, and the use of products can become cheaper too. So, imho, what we should do is give customers who use services better rights.

It can't be good for the environment that Apple designed an iPhone 5s with connectors so tiny that one unplug and re-plug ruins the pads and renders the device useless. The connector would have been fine being a little bit bigger, but no, they had to minimize everything and make it impossible to fix.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#226

Post by Digit-Al »

snuxoll wrote: post #110
vanderZwan wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting bit for me is that safety razors are nearly impossible to find in normal shops probably because they would be less profitable for the shops too.

Sell a pack of 5 cartridges that last MAYBE a week each (pushing it, you suck it up because they’re so expensive even though they’ve already lost their edge after a single use) for $5-10, or a box of 500 blades that you can change for every shave for over a year for $5. Yeah, retailers love this garbage

A week? What are you shaving with them? Yaks? :-)

My cartridge razors last at least two months before I need to change them. Do you clean and dry your blades after use?

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#227

Post by turk184 »

amelius wrote: post #68
bo1024 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you are being downvoted for asking a question, but I think it's incredibly important to educate people on the dangers of your proposal, i.e. to answer it. A short answer is "everything Stallman has ever warned us about (most of which has already come to pass)." A longer answer contains many, many reasons, so I'll just throw out some paragraphs. Ownership is more than psychological, it's about your ri…

So you don't think that we can capture all of what you said in laws that protect the consumer? Also, how is using a service different than paying someone to do a job for you. E.g. paying someone to do your laundry instead of buying a washing machine. The person you hire can choose any means of doing your laundry, including putting a washing machine in your home. If that's causing problems with exploitation, isn't tha…

Doubtful. It comes down to a philosophy of workmanship and wanting to build quality products. Most companies today have zero ethics and exist only to plague the living. They sell you an idea, not something of actual value or quality.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#228

Post by MrQuincle »

Fej wrote: post #32
MrQuincle wrote: post #4

Is there something a consumer electronics company can do allowing people to update or upgrade components or firmware in such a way that we are not basically forced to void the warranty?

In the United States, a company cannot necessarily void your warranty for repairing a device yourself. See the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warran... Of course, that doesn't stop them from trying, and usually succeeding, because the FTC has been de-clawed and no one bothers to sue.

Note, in this case I am the one on the manufacturing side. If our smart power outlets get a firmware update that for example destroys the current soft fuse or thermal protection, we would be screwed. How would we be able to give the people the ability to tamper, but without incurring the risks that come with that?

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#229

Post by KozmoNau7 »

ToxicCorgi wrote: post #87
thatswrong0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe they aren't stupid and they're simply acting in their own self-interest, which means not wasting their time with unnecessarily more complicated products that offer little to them in return. Or maybe they do want the products they use to be status symbols. Or maybe they simply don't share your point of view. This doesn't mean they're necessarily stupid, it means they're different from you.

I disagree; there is some definition of 'stupid' that exists in the same shape and form in most consumers. It stems from laziness, desire for showing off and instant gratification, and lack of critical thinking when being bombarded with marketing BS like cool visuals, gimmicky features and awesome keywords. The same self-interest leads to them being stupid and, usually, staying stupid. The stupidity of the average co…

On the other end of the spectrum, you have people who spend so much time agonizing over which PC/phone/blender to get that they end up in a circle of not being able to decide.

I've spend more time than I'm willing to divulge, deciding which portable speaker to get, because every option is flawed in some way. Most of them seem to follow the Apple school of thought, "why would you ever want to take this apart?", and are glued or even plastic welded together.

In the end, I'll probably go with the Marshall Kilburn, simply for the fact that it's relatively easy to replace the batteries (standard 18650 cells) behind a panel that is simply screwed on, not glued or otherwise "permanently" sealed. I may not be able to service the class D amps or the Bluetooth module, but at least I can replace the batteries or the drivers if one should fail at some point.

As a drawback, it is somewhat bulkier and heavier than most other options.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#230

Post by icebraining »

wiz21c wrote: post #210
icebraining wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Custom software development is not an unexplored market. There are literally thousands of companies, many of them small & local, offering those services. It's just that we do so to other businesses, since it's way too expensive to develop custom stuff for single individuals. I've built a coin-operated electric candle stand[1] for a local theater group. I'm just an amateur at electronic circuits, and I'm sure a profes…

Completely off-topic but you sure don't want to work for free (hint: the problem with that has nothing to do with the money)

I've heard that before, but I'm not convinced. Supposedly clients treat you better if they're paying, but in my experience, the correlation doesn't hold. At least by not charging I feel freer to walk away when I'm not being respected.
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