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A “right to repair” movement tools up

economist.com

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Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#71

Post by jackbravo »

throwaway613834 wrote: post #64
david-cako wrote: post #2

You can thank Louis Rossmann, in part, for this one. His livelihood does depend on it (although he has acknowledged that, as electronics get more disposable, he will inevitably end up having to shift into something like software or hardware design), but he has made a really admirable effort of actually going boots-on-the-ground and lobbying at political hearings.

He's freaking awesome. Have you seen the videos he has on the kinds of arguments Apple makes to prevent the right-to-repair become a thing? They're quite eye-opening and really gets to the heart of how ridiculous the whole situation is.

could you share one?

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#72

Post by M4v3R »

david-cako wrote: post #2

You can thank Louis Rossmann, in part, for this one. His livelihood does depend on it (although he has acknowledged that, as electronics get more disposable, he will inevitably end up having to shift into something like software or hardware design), but he has made a really admirable effort of actually going boots-on-the-ground and lobbying at political hearings.

His videos on YouTube when he teaches people how to do board-level Macbook repairs, for free (while advertising his own business of course): https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup/videos

Even though I'm a programmer and not really a hardware guy, I find watching him repairing stuff very interesting and oddly satisfying. He often even does all this on a live stream.

PS. For some reason most of his videos get a "do you want a website" preroll ad, which is already a running joke on his streams.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#73

Post by amichal »

Teever wrote: post #67
5555624 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon wouldn't need a brick-and-mortar operation. Just log into your account and print out a postpaid shipping label. They keep your purchase history; so, you could look up the order and click a link next to the item. There are far more Post Offices than any shops they could make a deal with.

Wait, does Amazon ship the junk back to China too and then China disassembles it and ships the elements back to their respective holes in the ground? It seems like a better idea would be to just have Amazon give you a voucher for the recycling fees in your local community.

Most "Recycled" electronics are sent back to china at least in part

Edit: summary at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste_in_China

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#74

Post by hutzlibu »

xoa wrote: post #20

I will admit that I am not a fan of the "right to repair" movement in terms of what I've seen from it so far when it comes to actual legislative proposals, and I also find a lot of the way it talks down to current consumers and market forces distasteful and short sighted. I can absolutely see how in some areas of production narrowly tailored rules might be beneficial in terms of efforts manufacturers make to prevent…

"I actively do not want anyone but Apple to be able to mess with the hardware authentication chain on my iPhone"

If you give something away to repair you allways have to trust them. If they are evil, there are almost unlimited ways to manipulate and plant spyware etc. Apple devices might indeed be harder to manipulate, but I doubt an expert will have much trouble with it, if he has physical access to it.

So in the end, by locking it more down, you are just locking yourself more to apple. If that's what you want, fine. But don't expect to be really more secure because of it.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#75

Post by snuxoll »

jackbravo wrote: post #71
throwaway613834 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's freaking awesome. Have you seen the videos he has on the kinds of arguments Apple makes to prevent the right-to-repair become a thing? They're quite eye-opening and really gets to the heart of how ridiculous the whole situation is.

could you share one?

They basically all boil down to trade secrets and "it's dangerous to let people repair these sensitive products".

Personally, I don't see how gerber files with board layouts and selling replacement components violates any trade secrets, considering the former is readily reverse-engineered (even if you can't easily determine exact routing for things in layers not on the board surface) and the latter poses them no risk either.

As for what boils down to the "people are stupid" argument, that's just BS and they know it.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#76

Post by snuxoll »

feelin_googley wrote: post #65

"In the future, repairability is likely to become even more of an issue, says Kyle Wiens, iFixit's chief executive. Not only do firms want customers to use authorised dealers, but a growing number of products are also no longer stand-alone devices , but rather delivery vehicles for services that generate additional revenues. " Gee, I wonder who started that trend?

Hey, you think this is bad - look at enterprise networking gear. Cisco and Juniper try to convince people it's illegal to use "grey market" (resold) equipment because the software license is "non-transferrable", so even if you "own" the hardware you don't have a license for the software attached to it. Of course, this flies in the face of the first-sale doctrine and established case law, but they don't care.

Just wait, somebody is going to try it with consumer devices sooner or later.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#77

Post by wcarron »

leopoldo wrote: post #47
4ad wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do I find all this mythical stuff that I want? I want a new car with no software, no computers, no GPS, no radio, no power windows, no keyless entry, no thermostat. Where do I find it? Realistically I can only chose between crap I don't want. And if I buy an older car, not only I have to deal with problems that would otherwise be avoidable if I bought a new car, but the government doesn't want me to use old car…

You know what? I got your answer, I have this beautiful 0-mile device without all those gadgets and crap. No keyless entry, no GPS, no radio, no (power)windows, no thermostat, minor software and computers (just to control the engine and emmissions). If you want add-ons you add them yourself: - GPS -> mount your smartphone - Thermostat -> more/less clothes - Radio -> get a bluetooth headset for your helmet - The list…

I also ride a motorcycle. Just got a new sportster and love it. I'll agree that it is wonderful not ever having to adjust a damn radio, roll windows up or worry about broken AC. It's great for all the reasons you described.

I also agree with your point that there __should__ be a market for a no-frills car of the same design philosophy.

However, I would NEVER recommend that someone get a motorcycle. You and I both know the risks. Literally every time we roll out we can be killed or maimed brutally. I think it's actually pretty irresponsible to recommend them to other people.

> Per vehicle mile traveled, motorcyclists' risk of a fatal crash is 35 times greater than a passenger car. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety#Accident_Rat... (the official sources are cited in the article)

Now, I could totally be missing the humor in this, in which case, ignore me.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#79

Post by throwaway613834 »

jackbravo wrote: post #71
throwaway613834 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's freaking awesome. Have you seen the videos he has on the kinds of arguments Apple makes to prevent the right-to-repair become a thing? They're quite eye-opening and really gets to the heart of how ridiculous the whole situation is.

could you share one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eyidi2HaMY&t=11m38s

Listen from that timestamp till 13:10.

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