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Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#211

Post by xupybd »

dvtv75 wrote: post #142
korethr wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many other OECD countries (which have more strict regulation) allow or even encourage the use of suppressors. Now this piques my curiosity. Could you perchance name some examples?

New Zealand is one. A few years ago, a friend took me to a firing range near Dunedin, and I watched someone fit a suppressor to an AR15 style weapon. New Zealand firearms regulations are incredibly tight. I never verified this, but I'm told that this particular AR15 was licensed and restricted to be used by him alone. His wife was also a shooter, and if she wanted to shoot an AR15, she would have to buy her own other…

Kiwi here. I'd like to add that to own a pistol you'd have to also leave it locked up at the gun club.

Our laws are based around the idea that a gun can be owned for hunting or collection but not self defence. So restrictions are in place to restrict pistols and automatic weapons to gun clubs and hunting weapons still require a license. The license requires you to pass a gun safety test and a background check. Then a police officer will inspect you have a secure cabinet to store the gun in.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#212

Post by nojvek »

mikestew wrote: post #147
ufo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do some countries encourage the use of suppressors?

Maybe so that, unlike in the U. S., if one lives within five miles of a gun range, one won’t be awakened on Sunday morning by gunfire. Me, I don’t mind it all that much, but there’s a gun range I can hear from the house. I haven’t mapped it, but it is at least three miles away. Here’s the kicker: I live smack in the middle of Redmond, WA. You know, where Microsoft is at? In case you were thinking I live in the sticks…

Haha! Those were gun shots? TIL!

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#213

Post by jcrben »

korethr wrote: post #118
ufo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do some countries encourage the use of suppressors?

Think about it. The threshold for potential instant noise-induced hearing loss is 120 dB SPL at the ear. A rifle can exceed 170 dB SPL at a distance of one meter[1]. When you're shooting a rifle, it's going to be cradled firmly against the shoulder -- a lot closer than 1 meter. Even the lowly .22lr fired from a handgun can exceed 160 dB SPL[2]. A suppressor can knock that down about 30 dB. 130 dB is still a lot, but…

Maybe it should be a thing for the gun range then. Require people to attach them there and require that they leave them there.

In general, if people are shooting outside in my neighborhood, I'd rather be woken up. That's not the type of thing that should go unnoticed. And I live in the middle of San Franciso where I've watched people get shot and killed.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#214

Post by tripa »

viraptor wrote: post #139
tripa wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When do we stop tying religion to geography?

Probably the better question is when we stop tying it to politics. These two can be either related or not. But some countries are practically single-religion based, so it's fair to describe them in that context.

It's fair indeed. For now. What I'd like to know is how we can get the situation to evolve.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#215

Post by drcode »

wavefunction wrote: post #73
drcode wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty messed up how this mirrors similar questions that come up when discussing autonomous vehicles- While we in the West try to come to grips with the agency of computer systems, other places are still trying to come to grips with agency for adult humans.

We in the West are still struggling to come to grips with agency for adult humans.

Sorry if I didn't couch my argument with enough disclaimers to satisfy every variant of moral relativism- Yes, both the US and Saudi Arabia struggle with human rights, in some fashion.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#216

Post by korethr »

jcrben wrote: post #213
korethr wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about it. The threshold for potential instant noise-induced hearing loss is 120 dB SPL at the ear. A rifle can exceed 170 dB SPL at a distance of one meter[1]. When you're shooting a rifle, it's going to be cradled firmly against the shoulder -- a lot closer than 1 meter. Even the lowly .22lr fired from a handgun can exceed 160 dB SPL[2]. A suppressor can knock that down about 30 dB. 130 dB is still a lot, but…

Maybe it should be a thing for the gun range then. Require people to attach them there and require that they leave them there. In general, if people are shooting outside in my neighborhood, I'd rather be woken up. That's not the type of thing that should go unnoticed. And I live in the middle of San Franciso where I've watched people get shot and killed.

Honestly, if suppressors were widely available to the general public, I'd love it for people to be using them on the range. Even if he's on the far opposite lane of the range, the guy shooting a .300 Winchester Magnum is still damn loud. But I don't think they should be limited to the gun range.

Out in the suburbs, or further out on the edge of the city where things start to get rural, if someone has a big enough backyard that they can safely fire a .22, I'd rather they use a suppressor. It's not a case of not being woken or not by the danger of violence in the neighborhood, it's a case of neighborly manners. It's more similar to me not running a guitar amplifier after 9pm. Nobody likes to be disrupted by loud noises when they don't need to be.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#217

Post by randyrand »

bogomipz wrote: post #104
randyrand wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 21st century is not as homogeneous as you think. Not every country will have the same cultural timeline as the USA, and it's odd to me that comments like yours are so prevalent. The world is bigger than america. Comments like this just seem incredibly self-centered, and a bit culturally supremacist.

Why is the OP automatically deemed an American for expressing cynicism? Its amazing that you yourself see no hypocrisy in making such discriminatory remarks based on what you perceive another's nationality to be. The 21st century might not be homogenous but please name me one other place on the planet where women can't drive, where women can't open a banking account[1], or where women can't enter a Starbucks[2] or wh…

To your first point, I could/should have replaced "America" with "western culture", but it originally made the sentence less clear. I noticed the hypocrisy =)

To your second point, I was not talking about the specifics of Saudia Arabia, but rather the common idom of going "what centry is this" with respect to judging other cultures. People forget that western history is distinct from world history. And it feels a bit supremacist too - "Western culture is at X point, so everyone should be at X point"

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#218

Post by drspacemonkey »

smsm42 wrote: post #32
drspacemonkey wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on how much political influence that specific preacher wielded. In Saudi, clerics wield a LOT of political influence. They're not just religious advisers, they get to set and interpret law based on their understanding of the Quran and the Hadiths.

No, mainly depends on how much outrage can be mined out of it. Influence is largely the byproduct of the press attention, at least in the scales we have in the US, and the press wants to have people engaged (clicks, views, ads) and also preferably show their political opponents are crazy evil idiots. Emphasizing outrageously stupid claims by some obscure personality serves both goals - people get outraged, share the…

>Influence is largely the byproduct of the press attention

That's not how it works with clerics in Saudi. They have official standing with the government, have their own police force with the authority to enforce morality laws (the mutaween), and even get to decide who the next king will be.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#219

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

jcrben wrote: post #213
korethr wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about it. The threshold for potential instant noise-induced hearing loss is 120 dB SPL at the ear. A rifle can exceed 170 dB SPL at a distance of one meter[1]. When you're shooting a rifle, it's going to be cradled firmly against the shoulder -- a lot closer than 1 meter. Even the lowly .22lr fired from a handgun can exceed 160 dB SPL[2]. A suppressor can knock that down about 30 dB. 130 dB is still a lot, but…

Maybe it should be a thing for the gun range then. Require people to attach them there and require that they leave them there. In general, if people are shooting outside in my neighborhood, I'd rather be woken up. That's not the type of thing that should go unnoticed. And I live in the middle of San Franciso where I've watched people get shot and killed.

As someone living in a rural area, near a nature preserve, I'd prefer the opposite.

I'm tired of being woken up way too early in the morning by gunshots. Waterfowl season started last weekend, so it was shotguns going off a mile away. Rifle season for deer starts soon (it's bowhunting season now), and that will bring its own set of loud noises from even closer.

I'm all for suppressors, if only so I can sleep past 5AM without having to keep my windows closed.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#220

Post by jimmy2020 »

kweks wrote: post #199
jimmy2020 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that will never happen in any muslim country at all

Except for: 1. Jordan (Decriminalised) 2. Turkey (Legal) 3. Lebanon (Allowable) 4. Oman (Illegal but tolerated) 5. Bahrain (Legal) 6. Iraq North (Kurdistan) 7. Palestine Capital punishment is "only" carried out in: Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Sudan, and northern Nigeria. It's often better to not make assumptions, or quietly inform yourself first on subjects that you're not familiar with.

Homosexuality is legal in Bahrain and Turkey? wow you just came up with something completely untrue and misleading. Regardless what you categorize as Allowable? what does it mean? Do something in secret behind the government eyes!
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