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Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#141

Post by detaro »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #135
korethr wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many other OECD countries (which have more strict regulation) allow or even encourage the use of suppressors. Now this piques my curiosity. Could you perchance name some examples?

Some European countries where, if you can buy a gun, you can buy a suppressor: UK, Norway, Finland, and France (rimfire only). EDIT: Removed Germany from list

I think that's not correct about Germany: buying a suppressor is treated similar to the gun it's for. So for an air rifle that doesn't require a permit, you can get the suppressor just as easily. But if it's for a weapon you need a permit for (any real gun), you also need an extra permit to buy the suppressor, just because you can own the gun doesn't mean you can own a matching suppressor. And only a few states allow them at all, and if they do generally only for some hunters.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#142

Post by dvtv75 »

korethr wrote: post #113
knz wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws related to firearms are often similar. The current example is the effort to make suppressors more available. Those opposed are already pushing tales of dramatically increasing crime rates and poaching instead of acknowledging that even suppressed firearms are still very loud or that many other OECD countries (which have more strict regulation) allow or even encourage the use of suppressors. The sad part about us…

> many other OECD countries (which have more strict regulation) allow or even encourage the use of suppressors. Now this piques my curiosity. Could you perchance name some examples?

New Zealand is one.

A few years ago, a friend took me to a firing range near Dunedin, and I watched someone fit a suppressor to an AR15 style weapon.

New Zealand firearms regulations are incredibly tight. I never verified this, but I'm told that this particular AR15 was licensed and restricted to be used by him alone. His wife was also a shooter, and if she wanted to shoot an AR15, she would have to buy her own otherwise she would be committing a firearms offense.

On the other hand, I was also told that if I wanted a firearms license and the endorsement to allow me to own pistols, I would need to be a member of the pistol club, shooting regularly for six months, before I could apply for the endorsement. However, I could also apply for my firearms license AND the P endorsement on the same day, having been a regular shooter at the range beforehand.

One reason behind the strict regulation of firearms in New Zealand is the Aramoana massacre from November 1990. David Gray, who owned several military-style firearms, used these weapons to murder a number of people over the course of two days before finally being killed by police.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#143

Post by noobermin »

liquidise wrote: post #102
qsymmachus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A creepily common idea among certain libertarians. "Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of 'capitalist democracy' into an oxymoron." – the inimitable Peter Thiel

Anecdata, but i have never heard a self-described libertarian suggest that women should have their voting rights rescinded. At the risk of proclaiming No True Scottsman, the entire premise is so antithetical to a libertarian philosophy that i struggle to grasp how someone could embody such competing ideals. That being said, giving women the [due] right to vote effectively doubled the eligible voting pool in america.…

To be fair, if you are a libertarian, many people claim the libertarian moniker but then say very illiberal things; check any comment section of Reason when there is a black person killed by a cop. It is getting very hard for people outside your group to identify what libertarian means anymore because of that.

A similar thing is happening on the left I think, but since it is my group, I might not be as mindful of it. The same might follow for you.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#144

Post by dep_b »

lucb1e wrote: post #85

Just today I had someone casually mention that he thought women should not be allowed to vote. This is the Netherlands, the person is Dutch, not muslim or some other culture that I might not be used to, we're master's students... nothing out of the ordinary. And the third person in the conversation apparently agreed, calling it bad to prohibit it in principle but "seeing the effects of allowing women to vote" he agre…

Well you felt the urge to whatabout one of the most liberal and free countries while the discussion is about one of the most fucked up countries in the world that is the perfect marriage between fascism and religion and is actively exporting their retarded view on the way the world should be.

You are extremely insensitive to mention something insignificant like some frat boys trolling you to the scale of assholism that is going on SA against women and basically anything that is not a male Übermuslim. It's like saying "Pretty bad stuff going on in Syria huh? But you know what just happened: MY NAIL BROKE!! OMG!!!"

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#145

Post by atomical »

dep_b wrote: post #144
lucb1e wrote: post #85

Just today I had someone casually mention that he thought women should not be allowed to vote. This is the Netherlands, the person is Dutch, not muslim or some other culture that I might not be used to, we're master's students... nothing out of the ordinary. And the third person in the conversation apparently agreed, calling it bad to prohibit it in principle but "seeing the effects of allowing women to vote" he agre…

Well you felt the urge to whatabout one of the most liberal and free countries while the discussion is about one of the most fucked up countries in the world that is the perfect marriage between fascism and religion and is actively exporting their retarded view on the way the world should be. You are extremely insensitive to mention something insignificant like some frat boys trolling you to the scale of assholism th…

Take a few deep breaths.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#146

Post by mikestew »

xupybd wrote: post #117
woodman wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, this is so incredible. You've essentially suggested the reintroduction of a voter literacy test... now consider the context of that suggestion.

To be honest I'd never heard about voter literacy tests. I'm not in the states so the context is not something I'm aware of. I know it creates more problems than it solves, I just wish people would take the time and effort to have an informed opinion before voting. Even if that informed opinion is opposed to mine. To split hairs you don't have to be literate to name a policy.

I know it creates more problems than it solves

It also strikes at the heart of what "citizen" means. See, here I thought just being a "citizen" was good enough to have the privilege to vote. But now I have to know how to read. Or name a policy. Or come up with the money to pay the poll tax. Or be a man. Or agree with you.

No, the only requirement (in the U. S.) is to be a citizen and to be registered on the list of eligible voters. Anything else, history has taught us, is an attempt at voter suppression, i. e., keeping people we don't like from voting. And citizens come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and sometimes they're ignorant as fuck, but we let 'em vote anyway. Because the alternative is to eventually devolve back to only white guys voting, and only privileged ones at that.

I just wish people would take the time and effort to have an informed opinion before voting. Even if that informed opinion is opposed to mine.

That's not to say that I'm not in full-on agreement with you. But kind of like the ol' "better a 1000 guilty men go free than..." I'd rather a populace of ignorant voters cast their votes than suppress the vote of a single eligible person, no matter how ignorant, female, or brown they might be.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#147

Post by mikestew »

ufo wrote: post #106
knz wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws related to firearms are often similar. The current example is the effort to make suppressors more available. Those opposed are already pushing tales of dramatically increasing crime rates and poaching instead of acknowledging that even suppressed firearms are still very loud or that many other OECD countries (which have more strict regulation) allow or even encourage the use of suppressors. The sad part about us…

Why do some countries encourage the use of suppressors?

Maybe so that, unlike in the U. S., if one lives within five miles of a gun range, one won’t be awakened on Sunday morning by gunfire. Me, I don’t mind it all that much, but there’s a gun range I can hear from the house. I haven’t mapped it, but it is at least three miles away. Here’s the kicker: I live smack in the middle of Redmond, WA. You know, where Microsoft is at? In case you were thinking I live in the sticks. But the gun range was here long before Microsoft showed up. (That one up by Willows Road in the middle of a subdivision, if you’re local.)

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#148

Post by ams6110 »

kobeya wrote: post #131
jimmy2020 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that will never happen in any muslim country at all

Way to make broad generalizations. Homosexuality is not illegal in Jordan or Bahrain, and socially tolerated in many other places.

Those countries are constitutional monarchies. Saudi Arabia is an Islamic monarchy. Very unlikely that an Islamic state will ever condone homosexuality.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#149

Post by mikeash »

dep_b wrote: post #144
lucb1e wrote: post #85

Just today I had someone casually mention that he thought women should not be allowed to vote. This is the Netherlands, the person is Dutch, not muslim or some other culture that I might not be used to, we're master's students... nothing out of the ordinary. And the third person in the conversation apparently agreed, calling it bad to prohibit it in principle but "seeing the effects of allowing women to vote" he agre…

Well you felt the urge to whatabout one of the most liberal and free countries while the discussion is about one of the most fucked up countries in the world that is the perfect marriage between fascism and religion and is actively exporting their retarded view on the way the world should be. You are extremely insensitive to mention something insignificant like some frat boys trolling you to the scale of assholism th…

It's not whataboutism, it's bringing up a similar sentiment in a different context and despairing about the attitude.

A critical component of whataboutism is the part where you say "you are not in a position to criticize," which this person did not do.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#150

Post by [deleted] »

lucb1e wrote: post #85

Just today I had someone casually mention that he thought women should not be allowed to vote. This is the Netherlands, the person is Dutch, not muslim or some other culture that I might not be used to, we're master's students... nothing out of the ordinary. And the third person in the conversation apparently agreed, calling it bad to prohibit it in principle but "seeing the effects of allowing women to vote" he agre…

[deleted]
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