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EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

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Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#71

Post by dang »

bkeroack wrote: post #31
jacquesm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, tbh it wasn't all that appealing even without these ridiculous rules. I used to travel there several times per year, haven't been back in over a decade now. There is a lot more than just these searches from the point of view of an international business traveler or tourist.

We had Islamist terrorists literally fly jetliners into buildings and slaughter thousands. Sorry to inconvenience your vacation a bit.

This sort of snarky, nasty response will get your account banned here regardless of how bad some other comment was. Worse, you went into flamewar mode, kept up the nastiness, and ended with a nationalistic attack. These things are exactly what we're trying to avoid here. Would you please read the site rules and post civilly and substantively, or not at all, from now on?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#72

Post by ue_ »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #63
tryingagainbro wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> They should have no jurisdiction over information. Devils'a advocate: But some information is illegal in USA, like kiddie pron, terrorist stuff, stolen trade secrets etc...so we have to make sure it doesn't enter USA. On the other hand, they can send it via the internet, making border searches less effective. And since they're really burdensome and affect privacy of everyone the court might do away with them. Hope…

> like kiddie pron Including, I believe, a rather massive body of drawings and animation films from Japan (I'm thinking of Hentai involving underage schoolgirls). One does not simply forbids those "to protect the children" (no one under 18 is actually involved in the making of such… art), so there must be some harder to justify reason (like good old puritanism, or priming effects).

>Including, I believe, a rather massive body of drawings and animation films from Japan (I'm thinking of Hentai involving underage schoolgirls).

This is not illegal at the country-level in the US, however such laws do, hideously in my opinion, exist in England and Wales, Northern Ireland, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada among other places. They also exist as "oscene" at the state level and thus you may be liable depending on state law.

There was recently a case in Austrila in which a prisoner was brought before a court on the charge of producing child pornography, while in prison -- how? He wrote short fiction stories and they were found by a prison guard. Similarly longer ago a case in Australia decided that children in the Simpsons do indeed qualify as children, beacuse although they do not share many bodily features of real humans, the genitals as depicted in the pornography did share characteristics to those of real humans, which was apparently enough to secure a conviction under the charge of possession of child pornography.

Canada similarly has illegalised possession, even of story material depicting sexual acts involving a minor. To me at least it is ridiculous to think that one may be libable under the law for prison time of up to three years for possession of a drawing.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#73

Post by tmnvix »

I happened to catch a few minutes of one of those border/customs reality shows a couple of weeks ago. A young German couple were trying to enter the US from Canada as tourists. They had very little in the way of funds and claimed that they planned on sleeping in their van while travelling.

The official at the border asked them if they planned on working. They both said "no". He asked them again but warned them that their computers and phones had been searched. Again they said "no". The official then showed them correspondence that showed they were expected at a farm were they were expected to work as wwoofers.

They were denied entry.

Personally I don't agree that their correspondence should have been checked in the first case but I can see that this is an example of how this type of privacy invasion might be argued for by government.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#74

Post by Joking_Phantom »

KGIII wrote: post #68
Joking_Phantom wrote: post #59

Does anyone know of a case where a search of electronic material beyond physical inspection actually resulted in any illegal materials? I don't doubt that our current body of legislation and judicial precedents make this practice legal, but I honestly can't see this policy actually doing anything. The classic case of illegal electronic information would be child pornography - but who would be stupid enough to bring i…

Top link, quite recent, thousands of results: http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/17/handful-of-refugees-caught...

Thank you for the reply, but these are refugees crossing into Canada. Not American citizens entering the United States. I don't see thousands of results either.

A quick google search revealed absolutely nothing fruitful - 3 articles about the refugees seeking asylum in Canada being deported after CP discovery, 1 American citizen charged with CP found in his residence, 1 American citizen charged by a Saskatchewan provincial court, and 1 former Border Patrol agent caught as part of a Texan initiative that counters crimes against children.

Not a single example comes to mind of an American citizen entering or leaving with illegal electronic information. If these searches were actually doing anything useful, I'm sure an organized effort to promote its success would've been underway.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#75

Post by crispyambulance »

mikeash wrote: post #45
crispyambulance wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, and almost anyone else, would consent to it for the sake of getting on the flight. Yeah, I don't like it either. It doesn't happen a lot, but when it does I imagine these outcomes: 1) Handover unlocked device, let CBP knuckle-dragger browse through it, in front of me, until they're bored and they hand it back. Get on flight. This is the best case scenario. 2) Handover unlocked device, CPB knucke-dragger takes it t…

If you are a US citizen entering the US (don't try this if you're a green card holder or a visitor), then in the case of (3), they can't hold you indefinitely, although they can hold your phone indefinitely. This has never happened to me, and it probably never will, but if it does my plan is to refuse to unlock the phone and wait it out.

I used the term "indefinitely" too loosely. I should have said "far longer than most people are willing tolerate for the sake of making a point."

But OK, staying locked is a fine thing to do but most people would want to get on with their lives.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#76

Post by b3lvedere »

yahna wrote: post #57
b3lvedere wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About time there is a system where you can make a super cool backup of your entire smartphone and laptop on a remote system, then completely wipe these devices and restore it when you are safe from the border officers. icloud total backup or something :) "Sure officer, i'll unlock my phone and my laptop. There's absolutely nothing on it."

What do you have to hide?

Everything i want
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