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EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

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Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#31

Post by bkeroack »

jacquesm wrote: post #29
robin_reala wrote: post #5

But only for people who are US citizens, or at least permanent residents. It’s not making visiting the US any more appealing to the rest of the world.

Well, tbh it wasn't all that appealing even without these ridiculous rules. I used to travel there several times per year, haven't been back in over a decade now. There is a lot more than just these searches from the point of view of an international business traveler or tourist.

We had Islamist terrorists literally fly jetliners into buildings and slaughter thousands. Sorry to inconvenience your vacation a bit.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#32

Post by alreadyhere »

24gttghh wrote: post #30
ScottBurson wrote: post #16

The distinction I would suggest is that CBP should have the power to search the effects of entering travelers looking for physical contraband; so, for instance, to examine a laptop and cell phone to make sure they're not fakes full of cocaine or fentanyl or something. They should have no jurisdiction over information . They don't get to examine all the bits coming into the country over the Internet, and we certainly…

>They don't get to examine all the bits coming into the country over the Internet, and we certainly don't want to give them that power! I believe the NSA already does this or it is within their 'jurisdiction'.

Yea, but the NSA doesn't man the borders, and nothing gives them the right to do that (as of now).

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#33

Post by alreadyhere »

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #10
makecheck wrote: post #4

Airport searches should be limited to what might cause a transportation security issue. Nothing on a mobile device qualifies, especially since in-flight wifi provides a way to download anything to the device in flight that is not present when checked at Security. Regular border searches should have no right to look at devices at all, since there is no plane or train to endanger and there are even more ways to beam ov…

For general TSA searches, you are correct, but border security is not about ensuring the safe transportation of the person crossing the border, so I am not sure how your framework makes sense.

Surely the passport is a sufficient signal. Chances are if you have a fake one, you aren't likely to keep incriminating data on your phne, like your actual facebook profile.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#34

Post by jacquesm »

bkeroack wrote: post #31
jacquesm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, tbh it wasn't all that appealing even without these ridiculous rules. I used to travel there several times per year, haven't been back in over a decade now. There is a lot more than just these searches from the point of view of an international business traveler or tourist.

We had Islamist terrorists literally fly jetliners into buildings and slaughter thousands. Sorry to inconvenience your vacation a bit.

What a dumb response. Yes, this happened. And nothing that is currently inconveniencing millions would have made a shred of a difference there. This has been beaten to death for over 15 years. Cockpit doorlocks and passengers being more willing to actively resist hijackers is what made the difference. Border searches on incoming (not domestic) flights not so much, especially not of electronics data as well as personal belongings.

Overreaction is exactly what caused those Islamist terrorists to be able to credibly claim they not only won that particular battle but managed to get their enemy to continuously score own goals ever since.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#35

Post by bkeroack »

jacquesm wrote: post #34
bkeroack wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had Islamist terrorists literally fly jetliners into buildings and slaughter thousands. Sorry to inconvenience your vacation a bit.

What a dumb response. Yes, this happened. And nothing that is currently inconveniencing millions would have made a shred of a difference there. This has been beaten to death for over 15 years. Cockpit doorlocks and passengers being more willing to actively resist hijackers is what made the difference. Border searches on incoming (not domestic) flights not so much, especially not of electronics data as well as persona…

TIL that a relatively mild increase in border security is an "overreaction" to entire floors of people being incinerated alive.

God Bless. I'm glad they weren't your family.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#36

Post by yahna »

bkeroack wrote: post #31
jacquesm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, tbh it wasn't all that appealing even without these ridiculous rules. I used to travel there several times per year, haven't been back in over a decade now. There is a lot more than just these searches from the point of view of an international business traveler or tourist.

We had Islamist terrorists literally fly jetliners into buildings and slaughter thousands. Sorry to inconvenience your vacation a bit.

and your response has been to act like a bunch of paranoid morons, giving up your freedom for the illusion of security.

Great job. Really showed the terrorists with that response.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#37

Post by jacquesm »

bkeroack wrote: post #35
jacquesm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a dumb response. Yes, this happened. And nothing that is currently inconveniencing millions would have made a shred of a difference there. This has been beaten to death for over 15 years. Cockpit doorlocks and passengers being more willing to actively resist hijackers is what made the difference. Border searches on incoming (not domestic) flights not so much, especially not of electronics data as well as persona…

TIL that a relatively mild increase in border security is an "overreaction" to entire floors of people being incinerated alive. God Bless. I'm glad they weren't your family.

For an example of an overreaction check out what happened to Iraq and how many people died there.

9/11 was a very ugly thing, but if the goal was to drive a wedge between the United States and the rest of the world because of the reaction it caused then it succeeded very well. Note that terrorists do not necessarily have as a goal to kill a lot of people (though I'm sure they would not pass up the opportunity if they had it), the goal is to cause their perceived enemy to be afraid and to react in ways that further their (the terrorists) goals.

So you are actually helping them.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#38

Post by jordigh »

freeone3000 wrote: post #18
jordigh wrote: post #6

Can someone offer a simple explanation of why the EFF and ACLU might succeed? I remember seeing big signs at US border crossings that said YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS in big allcaps, and I think the law is mostly on their side. Those signs are probably still there.

What law says they have no rights? That seems to supercede the constitution, which can't be done. Constitution needs to be interpreted in this case.

The argument I've heard is that the constitution only applies to people who are in the US and her citizens. At a border crossing you're not in the US, and if you're not a US citizen, then I think you literally have no rights.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#39

Post by bkeroack »

jacquesm wrote: post #37
bkeroack wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL that a relatively mild increase in border security is an "overreaction" to entire floors of people being incinerated alive. God Bless. I'm glad they weren't your family.

For an example of an overreaction check out what happened to Iraq and how many people died there. 9/11 was a very ugly thing, but if the goal was to drive a wedge between the United States and the rest of the world because of the reaction it caused then it succeeded very well. Note that terrorists do not necessarily have as a goal to kill a lot of people (though I'm sure they would not pass up the opportunity if they…

No, their goal is to invade, destroy and dominate non-Islamic western civilization. Their literature explicitly states this.

It's a tragedy that the islamists are starting to succeed in Europe because collectively you refuse to recognize it for what it is: an asymmetric, paramilitary invasion.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#40

Post by jacquesm »

bkeroack wrote: post #39
jacquesm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For an example of an overreaction check out what happened to Iraq and how many people died there. 9/11 was a very ugly thing, but if the goal was to drive a wedge between the United States and the rest of the world because of the reaction it caused then it succeeded very well. Note that terrorists do not necessarily have as a goal to kill a lot of people (though I'm sure they would not pass up the opportunity if they…

No, their goal is to invade, destroy and dominate non-Islamic western civilization. Their literature explicitly states this. It's a tragedy that the islamists are starting to succeed in Europe because collectively you refuse to recognize it for what it is: an asymmetric, paramilitary invasion.

> No, their goal is to invade, destroy and dominate non-Islamic western civilization.

Yes, their stated goal is to make you afraid. It seems to have worked.

> Their literature explicitly states this.

And our 'literature' explicitly states a whole bunch of things too. Never put too much trust in a single book or in people who only have one book. At the same time, what a bunch of religious fanatics call for and what a billion or more Muslims feel like has nothing to do with each other and without the cooperation of the second the first can do some occasional damage but are not nearly powerful enough to overcome even the smallest Western country.

> It's a tragedy that the islamists are starting to succeed in Europe

They are? I haven't seen any and I live there.

Please point them out for me.

> because collectively you refuse to recognize it for what it is: an asymmetric, paramilitary invasion.

You mean: Muslims in general? Refugees?

Or are you actually claiming the majority of these folks are terrorists now?

I really have a very hard time finding any shadow of aggression in my Muslim friends, at the same time I have absolutely no problem detecting that (well beyond a shadow) in the words and deeds of the Neo fascists who would be more than happy if they disappeared by any means.

Anyway, I can see that your mind is made up on this and that whatever I say will probably just convince you more that you are right about all this so I will leave it at this point.

Best of luck with your fears.

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