A constitution defines a government, and it is a poorly written constitution that is instead used to limit people's determinism.
Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
141–150 of 243 posts
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
And why do you think that such radicalism has taken hold in Catalonia? Has it ever been thus, or could it possibly be in reaction to something...? And do you think that the Spanish government's actions will encourage unity or fan the flames of separatism? I think Catalan independence is a stupid idea, but you'd have to be pretty blinkered not to see the historical, ongoing heavy-handedness of the Spanish government i…
That "radicalism" has nothing to do with centralism. It has to do with radical nationalism of peripherical regional parties. They control the media, the education, the funding of heavily subsized companies with public money for more than 35 years. Spain is a very decentralized country, closer to a federal model. Right regional parties in Catalonia cannot keep on stealing from the public budget since the Great Recessi…
You didn't answer my question. People aren't born radical. And fringe regional parties don't come to control the media, education, and public purse without some significant measure of popular support.
So once again: Why do you think radical secession is even on the table? Why do you think Catalan nationalism has flared up in recent years? Why would any young person support Catalan independence if Spain's federal government is meeting their needs?
Answer that question honestly, and I think you'll realize where the problem is, and where the solution lies.
(Hint: It's not censoring websites, arresting ministers, or raiding the officials of regional bureaucrats.)
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#143I know it’s hard to not take parts with the “oppressed” but: You must know that this referendum was approved without reading the bill in the Catalonian parliament, so the opposition couldn’t even have a say. Even the vicepresident of the chamber stepped out of line since it was so outrageously un-democratic. The people leading this movement in Catalonia (very much like the central government) is riddled with corrupti…
> In short: please be skeptical about whatever you hear from either side. There’s an estimated 40-45% of support for the vote and less than that (30-40%) support for independence
Do you have sources, because the last I know is from El Periodico (against independence) and the amount of people supporting a referendum was almost 80%
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#144This is an example of a seized web site http://ref1oct.cat/ it had information about the poll. The JS in the source is really sad, one of the options click baits you to an Spanish sports newspaper.
Wow the coat of arms of the Spanish government still has a fasces on it? You learn something every day.
The Coat of Arms of Spain doesn't have fasces.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Azaña said many things: "Si en algún momento dominara en Cataluña otra voluntad y resolviera remar sola en su navío, sería justo permitirlo y nuestro deber consistiría en dejaros en paz, y si esto sucediera os desearíamos buena suerte hasta que cicatrizara la herida"
Please, tell the whole story. Yes, Azaña said those words in March, 27, 1930, in the Restaurant Patria (Barcelona) but soon he learned about his error, and the grave consequences of that speech. In May, 1937, Azaña wrote in his diary: "las muchas y muy enormes y escandalosas [...] pruebas de insolidaridad y despego, de hostilidad, de 'chantajismo' que la política catalana ha dado frente al gobierno de la República".…
My point is that even a single guy changes his opinion. It's not reasonable to present it as representative of a full system of government. Go ask Rajoy if his opinions represent the whole system :)
EDIT: Also, those quotes just show that the iconoclast and rebellions attitude of Catalonia against the central government is quite old, and not just an invention of some corrupt politicians to divert attention :)
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
> in today's Catalonia people have to fight for basic things like the right to educate their children in Spanish I don't think there's a right to be taught in the language of your choice, the same way you can't decide which subjects your children will study. At least not in Spain. > mayors who do not support the referendum are being harrased by the radicals Maybe you should look at what's happening to those supportin…
"I don't think there's a right to be taught in the language of your choice". But there is the right. Is in the Spanish Constitution. Article 3.
No, that article doesn't say that, that article says that Spanish must know Spanish language.
And if people holds sacred the contituion, the TC didn't invalidated the linguistic immersion, it is constitutional
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#147For the less familiar who want to get up to speed on some of the medium-term background, this actually isn't bad:
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#148Under the assumption that for the next 10-20 years Catalonia wouldn't be allowed to join the EU, could someone of the pro separate group explain how a independent state of Catalonia is supposed to survive?
The problem here is not the secession, it is the right to vote. I'm Catalan, I'm against the independence, one reason is because I don't give a shit about being Spanish or Catalan, another is because the politicians here are exactly equally corrupts than the Spanish ones and economics ones. But what I want is the right to have a referendum and vote no. Funny thing is that if the entral government wanted to destroy th…
Sure. Just a coincidence that kind of speech 'we just want to vote', 'I'm going to say no but want to vote in this illegal referendum', I only hear it from secessionists.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
"You must know that this referendum was approved without reading the bill in the Catalonian parliament, so the opposition couldn’t even have a say." It's understandable given the filibusterism, and outright prohibitions you would expect from the central government. Referendum has been proposed for 7 years and it was rejected every time. Catalonia has less corruption than Spain in average. Even though the National Pol…
There's a legal way to change the Spanish Constitution. Use it. On the other hand, you can't be serious saying that in the region of Catalonia there's less corruption than in the whole Spain.
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2013/04/26/andalucia/136697569...
find the ratios and then the ratios of population. Thank you.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the law goes against one of the principles of democracy, the issue is with the law. What would your opinion be on a constitution that allows slavery? Because that was the case with a lot of constitutions in the past, and I think we would all agree that from a human right's point of view it was wrong. What's going on in Catalonia is illegal, but it's the democratically correct choice, and given what the Spanish gov…
And what's exactly the principle of democracy that the spanish constitution is violating? The right of a part of a country to secede is not recognized by most constitutions around the world, and it is certainly not a "principle of democracy". You want to change the constitution that rules your country, you get 2/3 of the votes of the parliament behind your vote and the constitution changes (or whatever rule your cons…
I'm referring to the right of self-determination. It might not fall under one of the principles of democracy (my apologies), but it's certainly a basic right (http://www.unpo.org/article/4957)
The Spanish constitution won't change because it's in their best interest to not do so, which is why this illegal referendum is being created. If they wanted the Estatut to pass, they would have passed; they didn't pass it because the rest of the Spanish communities would have been affected by it from an economical point of view (suddenly a chunk of money that was going to the other communities stays in Catalonia. Guess who's gonna be unhappy).
As to when you stop with the right of self-determination, in the case of Catalonia, from a cultural, language, and historical point of view, there's enough reasons for a referendum to be held (given the discontent of the population). There's a similar situation with Quebec, for example. As far as I know, there's nothing about New York --language, history, or culture-- that would warrant a referendum, and there's certainly no reason for you as an individual to do so (you don't even have the basic political institutions).