Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

domainnamewire.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 243 posts

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#71

Post by nsnick »

gfiorav wrote: post #66
nsnick wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "stops obeying the constitution" you mean "holds a referendum" I would be fine with it. What I am not ok with is a central government rounding people up because they want to hold an election.

Sure but now you’re deciding what parts of the constitution you obey and which ones you don’t. That just doesn’t scale. If you want to modify the constitution you need 2/3 of the senate. There’s a procedure for that. There no excuse to break the constitution. If you think there is, you had no argument to defend your own constitutional rights.

I think it is fine to not follow any part of any constitution that prevents democracy.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#72

Post by [deleted] »

rbanffy wrote: post #58
farresito wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. It's quite surprising how hard it is for a lot of people to understand this. Listening to the Spanish president say that what's going on in Catalonia is anti-democratic and that democracy is following the constitution is the most frustrating thing you can hear, and I'm surprised people use that argument against the pro-independence movement.

Democracy requires the rule of law. The law says the vote should not take place, therefore either the vote doesn't take place or the law (the constitution, in this case) is changed. Politics is the art of the possible. Right now, this is not possible and pushing for it is not constructive.

[deleted]

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#73

Post by allemagne »

jfaucett wrote: post #12
iagooar wrote: post #6

It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…

> Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto suspending the Catalonian autonomy and basically abandoning any democratic dialog. The irony is that many who support the independence of Catalonia are against independence of current EU member states and fail to s…

I'm sure many who applaud Brexit don't support "Calexit" either and I don't think that's ironic, really. They're entirely different situations.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#74

Post by severino »

dawkins wrote: post #46
monodeldiablo wrote: post #25

When I was dating a Croatian girl, I asked her which country reminded her most of pre-war Yugoslavia. "Spain," she said, without skipping a beat. "It's eerily similar. All power and wealth flowing to the capital in the center of the country? Check. Generations-long repression of regional, cultural, and linguistic diversity? Check. Awkward tendency to rewrite history to avoid open discussion of WWII-era atrocities? Ch…

"Brutal repression of freedom of speech or demonstrations" "Spain's a stable republic" It's saddens me to see so much ignorance and nonsense. Keeping aside that Spain is a monarchy, in today's Catalonia people have to fight for basic things like the right to educate their children in Spanish, mayors who do not support the referendum are being harrased by the radicals... that is a little example of the "oppresion" you…

> in today's Catalonia people have to fight for basic things like the right to educate their children in Spanish

I don't think there's a right to be taught in the language of your choice, the same way you can't decide which subjects your children will study. At least not in Spain.

> mayors who do not support the referendum are being harrased by the radicals

Maybe you should look at what's happening to those supporting it.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#75

Post by mcdevilkiller »

tbatchelli wrote: post #23
pfortuny wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, well, well, well... You should read the constitution and compare it to what the catalonian establishment is doing. The rule of law applies also to politicians.

That constitution was written and signed under Military watch. Let's not forget Franco, a genocidal dictator, died of old age while still in power, he was not ousted by democratic forces. And no one ever went to jail for the dictatorship. Many in power during the dictatorship remained in power for a long time after it "ended". The current constitution is a reflection of that time, where Spain was a nascent democracy…

A lot of people were killed under Franco's mandate, but he wasn't genocidal, Hitler was (Jews, Gipsies, etc): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#76

Post by jfaucett »

allemagne wrote: post #73
jfaucett wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto suspending the Catalonian autonomy and basically abandoning any democratic dialog. The irony is that many who support the independence of Catalonia are against independence of current EU member states and fail to s…

I'm sure many who applaud Brexit don't support "Calexit" either and I don't think that's ironic, really. They're entirely different situations.

I would like to see an argument for that. With the original scenario, its just an argument for autonomy and that less homogoneity and centralization in governmental structures better represents and distributes power amoung the diversity of the governed. Someone arguing for Brexit and against Calexit would have to do so on other grounds - which I'd be interested to see if they have any weight.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#77

Post by logronoide »

monodeldiablo wrote: post #25

When I was dating a Croatian girl, I asked her which country reminded her most of pre-war Yugoslavia. "Spain," she said, without skipping a beat. "It's eerily similar. All power and wealth flowing to the capital in the center of the country? Check. Generations-long repression of regional, cultural, and linguistic diversity? Check. Awkward tendency to rewrite history to avoid open discussion of WWII-era atrocities? Ch…

Yugoslavia and Spain has nothing to do. For a start, we are a Monarchy .

Maybe you should start with the basics about European history. Yugoslavia had a terrible civil war and they broke in pieces. There was no reason to keep on together. Spain had a more terrible civil war and Spain still exists as it was before.

The history of Catalonia says that they have never really fought for independence. They are always looking for economical benefits. Except anarchist which I think they really want to shock the system, the new-born "Indepes" will never stand up in arms to fight for the independence of Catalonia.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#78

Post by kuroikyu »

mcdevilkiller wrote: post #68
iagooar wrote: post #6

It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…

"At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves" The problem here in Spain/Catalonia is that Catalonian politicians only want Catalonians to vote. I feel that, being a Spanish citizen of legal age, I have the same right to vote on whether I want a part of my country to separate from it. But they won't let us vote, so, why should "we" let them vote? (Also, as per the constitution, it is illegal…

Only Scotland voted on their referendum. The rest of the UK didn't nor couldn't vote.

Would you let, let's say, France vote on your general elections to chose the next MP? Would you let a stranger choose the colour of the walls for your living room?

Only Catalans can decide their own fate. It's up to them and no one else whether they stay or leave. I don't care which side wins but there must be a vote.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#79

Post by enriquto »

mcdevilkiller wrote: post #68
iagooar wrote: post #6

It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…

"At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves" The problem here in Spain/Catalonia is that Catalonian politicians only want Catalonians to vote. I feel that, being a Spanish citizen of legal age, I have the same right to vote on whether I want a part of my country to separate from it. But they won't let us vote, so, why should "we" let them vote? (Also, as per the constitution, it is illegal…

What do you mean? in the scottish referendum only scots voted, not all brits. Are you saying that all spaniards (not only those living in Catalonia) should vote in the referendum? I don't see how this makes any sense.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#80

Post by lucaspiller »

mcdevilkiller wrote: post #68
iagooar wrote: post #6

It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…

"At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves" The problem here in Spain/Catalonia is that Catalonian politicians only want Catalonians to vote. I feel that, being a Spanish citizen of legal age, I have the same right to vote on whether I want a part of my country to separate from it. But they won't let us vote, so, why should "we" let them vote? (Also, as per the constitution, it is illegal…

Only residents of Scotland were able to vote in the Scottish referendum, so it’s the same situation as this.
Post reply on HN