Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes just like England carpetbombed Glasgo to stop the Scottish referendum. /s
Can I mention a few counterexamples? I guess no need to because you know. Yeah in 2017 some things are no longer accepted in the heart of Europe but Yugoslavia, Ukraine etc are recent examples. IIRC, you have the right to leave in peace, use your language, autonomy and not be discriminated but declaring independence is quite a few steps above that.
Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
11–20 of 243 posts
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#12It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…
The irony is that many who support the independence of Catalonia are against independence of current EU member states and fail to see the inherent dangers in the centralization of power (many such dangers exemplified by this very article and listed by you).
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#13It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…
Well, well, well, well... You should read the constitution and compare it to what the catalonian establishment is doing. The rule of law applies also to politicians.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes just like England carpetbombed Glasgo to stop the Scottish referendum. /s
Can I mention a few counterexamples? I guess no need to because you know. Yeah in 2017 some things are no longer accepted in the heart of Europe but Yugoslavia, Ukraine etc are recent examples. IIRC, you have the right to leave in peace, use your language, autonomy and not be discriminated but declaring independence is quite a few steps above that.
For years Catalonia has formally requested for this right to be exercised in different ways, and the Spanish government has made every effort to stop any possible way to channel this right. This has continued until today, when the Spanish militarized police has raided the Catalan institutions and arrested members of the Catalan government that was elected with the mandate to let Catalans exercise this right in spite of the official Spanish position, which it's trying to do through a referendum where both positions in favor and against independence may have equal opportunities to be heard.
Spain has always defended that this right to self-determination is confined to colonies because it would otherwise conflict with the also very important principle of territorial integrity. However, the International Court of Justice explained in its Advisory Opinion of 22 July 2010 regarding the case of Kosovo that “the scope of the principle of territorial integrity is confined to the sphere of relations between States”. Thus, even unilateral declarations of independence do not conflict with the aforementioned principle: “general international law contains no applicable prohibition of declarations of independence“.[0]
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#15It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…
Personally I feel this whole comparison between the 2 situations highlights the cultural differences: consensus seeking anglo-saxons, conflict/imposition-driven Hispanics/Latins. (non-hispanic latin here)
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#16It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…
Well, well, well, well... You should read the constitution and compare it to what the catalonian establishment is doing. The rule of law applies also to politicians.
Because it seems to me that these people are asking to vote.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#17It's like Spain is trying to push Catalonians to violence.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#18It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…
Well, well, well, well... You should read the constitution and compare it to what the catalonian establishment is doing. The rule of law applies also to politicians.
Using the constitution as some sort of shield / holy bible that can't ever possibly be changed IS what show the weakness of Spanish democracy.
In the end, governments are there to serve their people. They don't make sense as entities on their own. They represent a group of people who chooses to be represented by their government. If the government attacks the people and refuses to hear to what people have to say, you need to resort to not following the dogma.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can I mention a few counterexamples? I guess no need to because you know. Yeah in 2017 some things are no longer accepted in the heart of Europe but Yugoslavia, Ukraine etc are recent examples. IIRC, you have the right to leave in peace, use your language, autonomy and not be discriminated but declaring independence is quite a few steps above that.
Self-determination of peoples is a jus cogens law and a cardinal principle in international law. It's part of the UN's Charter and it's enshrined in many international treaties subscribed by Spain and by the European Union. For years Catalonia has formally requested for this right to be exercised in different ways, and the Spanish government has made every effort to stop any possible way to channel this right. This h…
Sure, you can declare all day but who will recognize you and if it's "illegal" in the country you want to leave, you will be jailed. If they do the ethnic cleansing that Serbia did in Kosovo then, you may have a better chance internationally. Changing of borders is frowned upon, almost every country has their own issues.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#20prior this mess, most of the people were against leaving, after this I am not so sure...