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U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

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Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#211

Post by drdeadringer »

kobeya wrote: post #72
jedc wrote: post #17

Former submariner here. My thoughts echo those of a ex-submariner group I'm a part of -- it makes sense across the board. It's 1) a cost saving measure, 2) WAY easier to get replacements, and 3) WAAAYY easier to train new people to use it safely and efficiently.

Former defense contractor here. I trust Microsoft to have put more time and money into making that controller maximally usable and useful than whatever subcontractor would have made the thing otherwise.

I am also a former defense contractor.

I wonder how much rigor Microsoft's controllers would have to go through to become a defense industry standard. The $500 Hammer legend doesn't exit in a vacuum, and I've experienced why.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#212

Post by _ea1k »

KGIII wrote: post #166
_ea1k wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because the supply rooms are crammed full of XBox 360 controllers.

Food, actually. They cram food all over them. When the embark, they don't have room for all the food in the galley. So, it gets tucked into every nook and cranny. They don't just get to stop at neighborhood grocery stores, after all.

Wow, I was just making a joke and you responded with something really insightful that I have never thought about at all. I've toured one of the museum submarines a few years ago and it amazed me how cramped everything was. It didn't even occur to me how difficult food storage would have to be.

Thanks!

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#213

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

iamapickle wrote: post #76
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something to worry about. USB hosts and devices identify themselves - malicious firmware embedded in the Xbox controller could check if it's connected to a real Xbox, compared to a Windows PC, or a submarine, and act (or misbehave) accordingly. And what is the plan in 20-30 years' time when the submarines are still in action but the controllers stopped being made? I get the feeling we'll see Navy personnel bi…

USB hosts do not identify themselves to devices.

How does my iPhone know which PC I've plugged it into then? Even when iTunes isn't installed (so no "Apple Mobile Device" drivers) it seems to remember my privacy preferences on a per-host basis.

I'll concede that may be a feature of the allocation protocol running on top of USB (PictBridge?) but that still means that mutual identification over USB is still possible. I'm pretty sure it's in the USB HID spec that the Xbox controllers implement.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#214

Post by wallace_f »

kobeya wrote: post #210
wallace_f wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'm really starting to understand more about all the reasons why SpaceX can get stuff in space for a fraction of the cost of Nasa in less than a decade in business

NASA doesn’t build rockets. You mean Lockheed/Boeing/ATK.

Basically yes. The NASA space shuttle was conceived by NASA, chosen by Nixon among a group of possible projects, and then the tank built by Lockheed, orbiter by ATK, etc. If anything, many of the above problems wouldn't just go away, some of them would become even more costly.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#215

Post by greglindahl »

kobeya wrote: post #209
heavenlyblue wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we've managed to end up with shuttle with all of that bureaucracy. I understand the complexity of the issue at hand. I can. Nevertheless simple handles going for 200K a piece is a vast budget. Any proper business would quickly open up an internal department to "do the handles" since it both allows them to grow for free (you get additional specialists and the handles) and allows to use the same engineers for somet…

Case in point, SpaceX has demonstrated that applying standard business optimization tactics to space hardware manufacturing works.

Mostly. Note that EELV and NASA launches by SpaceX have an extra paperwork charge, which is as big as $20mm. One hopes that eventually the US government will be able to take advantage of the same, cheaper service that commercial launches buy.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#216

Post by path411 »

cube00 wrote: post #100
vacri wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) I don't really understand this criticism - why would a bespoke milspec controller be any more likely to be around than a widely documented consumer controller? Which do you think is easier to replace today, or get a manufacturer to remake: a model M from 1984, or a custom machine keyboard from 1984. Hell, wind the back another 10 years - I worked in a hospital with a really old bit of kit. It was a Siemens EEG mac…

Is Microsoft going to be willing to share their original specs so you can build an identical controller years down the track? Given we're talking military here reverse engineering to remake wouldn't be acceptable.

Dude, it's Microsoft. Most of their business is to the government.
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