Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#161

Post by JBlue42 » Sun, Sep 17, 2017, 1:08 AM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #66

At work, I currently sit in an enclosed room that fits eight SWEs, all of whom are on my team. We have sliding glass doors on the room that we only use when we're having our stand-ups so as to not disturb the people outside the room. Incoming noise never seems to be a problem. All of the conversations I overhear are from my team members, and are thus relevant to me. I also have my back facing a wall. I consider this…

We had something similar at my last company, though teams were split up. 7-8 people to a room, open ceilings, open, large doorway, but with walls all the way up to the ceiling. There was one very large with room with an open floor plan and people would refuse to move into it, even though it meant they would get brand-new standing desks.

The company moved to a massive warehouse so they could give everyone more breathing space. It was basically a massive (30,000+ sq ft) open office. I thought it'd be much louder but the 40 ft high ceilings helped with that.

Personally, the pod/small team room situation was much better, especially as the main desktop support/IT guy. In the open office, my back was to a main aisle / circulation path and everyone could see how 'available' I was.

We had about 15-20 (out of 120) leave in the months prior to the move but I'm sure for a variety of reasons. I would take it with any grain of salt when seeing people start leaving when a company moves to a new building. Could be the new commute could just be the shake-up, though seemingly small, gives them a chance to assess where they are and what they want and look at new opportunities.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#162

Post by hungerstrike » Sun, Sep 17, 2017, 1:50 AM UTC

tyrw wrote: post #108

hungerstrike wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just absolutely love what they're doing and have done in terms of personal privacy. Pffft. They're doing it to hurt their enemies, not to help their customers. Apple is the worst company for those who love freedom and they're not on your side. I can't wait until their time is over and the damage that they have done to our industry has been reversed.

> Apple is the worst company for those who love freedom I'm not really pro or anti Apple, but I'm having a tough time coming up with what you might mean by this. Can you elaborate?

They clearly limit users at every turn that could lead to the user leaving their platforms. Especially on iOS.

I'm so happy they weren't able to do the same thing to PCs! If they had their way, the Macintosh OS would have been your only graphical/WIMP OS.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#163

Post by cxseven » Sun, Sep 17, 2017, 2:01 AM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #72

vslira wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this may sound like a poor substitute to private corporate space, but I can't praise enough the combination of noise reducing earplugs and active noise cancelling over earphones. This combo plus somafm and a pomodoro timer app can instantly boost my productivity

> active noise cancelling over earphones Some folks cannot wear those without discomfort or dizziness. I tried them out an fell into that category (I have some ear issues) which is damn annoying because my brother loves them for airplane rides. Right now, I am in an office with my back to a window that looks out to insulation[1]. I'm pretty comfortable programming away. 1) they added a building expansion where my out…

http://i.imgur.com/Ng1wa.jpg

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#164

Post by cxseven » Sun, Sep 17, 2017, 2:14 AM UTC

dpkonofa wrote: post #153

andrewflnr wrote: post #98

> Similarly, Gensler's 2016 UK Workplace Survey found that workers were more likely to innovate if they had access to a range of spaces supporting different working styles – including private, semi-private and open-plan environments. This is my favorite part, because it confirms an intuition I've held for a long time: both open areas and private offices have their uses, so provide both. The only downside I can see is…

And this is the part that I don't understand. According to most articles about this, they do offer private, shared offices. They're shared in that anyone can badge into them and use it privately but they're not assigned to any individual. That seems like a great compromise and yet it's rarely mentioned in articles like this.

What about something in between where teams can work together?

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#165

Post by sogen » Sun, Sep 17, 2017, 2:27 AM UTC

nfriedly wrote: post #143

sogen wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks!, last question, how's the tech employment in there? Which TBH doesn't really matter since i like to work remotely.

Yea, there isn't much in Pleasant Hill . There's an Air Force base, a couple of hospitals, a couple of software/web agencies, and a few other things around Dayton, though. I work remotely for IBM, and also have a side business that's mostly wound down now.

Thx, sorry to hear about the business.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#166

Post by flachsechs » Sun, Sep 17, 2017, 3:10 AM UTC

rndmswethrwawy wrote: post #152

flachsechs wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i sincerely congratulate you, but my point stands ("or were simply granted some kind of employee stock"); that $500k is with generous equity compensation, and you are one of the lucky few who was able to get it, thereby probably doubling your compensation from a base salary of 200-something. the vast majority of people do not get that kind of stock, the ones who are conned into over-working for their low-six figure j…

My argument isn't that it didn't take equity to get there, but that it's not intractable through "ordinary work". The big tech companies are essentially always hiring, and they're not the only ones offering marketable equity as part of the comp package. Yes, the performance of that equity can (and does) vary, but unless they're a company with Amazon's "total compensation philosophy" you benefit from the ups and the d…

there are probably tens of millions of engineers in the world, a small percentage of whom work for FAMG. yeah, no kidding, you'll make a ton of money if you work there get equity compensation. you don't say!

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#167

Post by jnwatson » Sun, Sep 17, 2017, 4:01 AM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #2

Such a failure to learn. The US school system went through this with "open classrooms". Schools were built to support the idea of no walls between classrooms. For years, teachers trying to maintain sanity erected temporary dividers. These days, most of those schools have been rehabbed to include actual walls, or they've been demo'd. Such a waste.

That's a great point. All three schools I attended growing up were designed like that. The school district spent a lot of money on separating the rooms out again. Climate control never worked after that.

It would be a shame for Apple to divide up the pretty space with ugly cubicle walls.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#168

Post by lizavp » Sun, Sep 17, 2017, 4:13 AM UTC

peferron wrote: post #105

acty1 wrote: post #87

Once you work remotely (and you have your own office, in your own house) you feel bad, terribly sorry for anyone that stays in an open office "cultured" tech company making 200k+ per year. The quality of life and lack of freedom you exchange for the "next 100k" above and beyond a 100k base Salary is never worth it. Time and health is your most precious resource and asset. And many are deluded into thinking it's ok to…

Don't assume that your own preferences apply to everyone. I worked remotely for a few years, with my own dedicated room/office in my home, and am much happier now that I moved back to our company office even though it has an open-floor plan. I enjoy face-to-face contact with my coworkers, and the light level of noise really doesn't distract me from my work—if anything, the surrounding activity motivates me. We don't…

Working from home for two years I miss co-workers however I don't miss the commute.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#169

Post by dpkonofa » Sun, Sep 17, 2017, 4:20 AM UTC

cxseven wrote: post #164

dpkonofa wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is the part that I don't understand. According to most articles about this, they do offer private, shared offices. They're shared in that anyone can badge into them and use it privately but they're not assigned to any individual. That seems like a great compromise and yet it's rarely mentioned in articles like this.

What about something in between where teams can work together?

Isn't that what's being referred to by the shared working offices? I thought the whole point of the article was that these spaces are what people are complaining about. They're on a team that needs to collaborate but they want it to be swapped around from the default. They want private spaces for everyone and a shared area for team work. Apple wants them to work in teams for most of their time and to have private spaces for the rarer occasions where they really need to be alone and focus on individualized tasks. I think they're making the debatable assumption that the most valuable work is done collaboratively and that the menial work is done individually.

As for the engineering team that got moved to their own building, I don't see how or why a private area for everyone would make their jobs better. If everyone's coding and not talking to anyone else, then what's there to distract? If people need to talk, they go to the collaborative space. If they don't want to hear people talk, they can go in one of the private spaces. Some people will simply spend more time in the private space or will work from home.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#170

Post by sitkack » Sun, Sep 17, 2017, 6:30 AM UTC

MengerSponge wrote: post #154

sitkack wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost anything in this category will do http://www.musiciansfriend.com/hearing-protection those crazy expensive one are probably overkill.

Yes, those are a great place to start, but after wearing silicone tri-tip earplugs for about five years, I sprang for in-ear molds. tri-tips are more than good enough to block out noise, but they're much less comfortable, especially if you wear them for hours on end. If they aren't comfortable enough for you to wear all day, it's not that expensive. I mean, some people pay about that much for a keyboard, and a good d…

I really enjoy live music, but after attending a rock show I temporarily developedtinnitus so bad it disrupted my sleep for 3 days. I had taken wonderful care of my hearing up to that point and it really bothered me that I might have permanently damaged by ears. I found the original Etymotic earplugs and bought multiple sets. I'd have new spares on me at shows that I would sell for cost. I'd give them to friends I went to shows with. Music is such a precious gift, it pains me that musicans are the first to lose it. Nearly any of these tri-tip earplugs will offer great protection and sound fidelity.

I'll take another look at the in-ear molds.