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Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

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Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#61

Post by maxxxxx »

vslira wrote: post #58
maxxxxx wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in cubicles but the noise is also driving me crazy. There is always some conversation going on somewhere. In the office I am having more and more trouble holding on to a complex thought and in the evening I am totally exhausted. On the other hand working from home feels like paradise. It's quiet and I can look out the window when I need a break. Because of the office environment I am now looking for a new job,…

I know this may sound like a poor substitute to private corporate space, but I can't praise enough the combination of noise reducing earplugs and active noise cancelling over earphones. This combo plus somafm and a pomodoro timer app can instantly boost my productivity

I can't stand wearing earplugs or headphones over a long time. I wish I could but it bothers me too much.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#62

Post by leggomylibro »

Cacti wrote: post #8
heisenbit wrote: post #4

Steve Jobs is said to have poured in a lot of thought on how the architecture of the building is supporting work. Steve also had some architectural experience from Pixar. On the macro level the alignment of the architecture with the organization as it was explained always made sense to me. On the micro level changing from offices to open floor is a huge change. How was that supposed to preserve and foster the enginee…

Who wants to get 3/4 of the way through the construction and admit your brand new building isn't big enough? Easier to just shove everyone in. Apple is usually a smart company, but it is always a large company, and large companies are prone to making broad one-size-fits-all mistakes.

Just do what Amazon is doing, and build another one. Not enough room? Erect another skyscraper.

And another one. Then a third.

And then when you start facing the prospect of your employees getting lynched by locals who are furious about their rent, ask some other cities if they might have room.

My prediction for the future: Amazon's internal transfer process is extremely smooth. Seattle is not gonna weather the opening of this second HQ well, once it gets up and running. But the point is, you gotta keep moving forwards - it's always day 1, right?

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#63

Post by CydeWeys »

vslira wrote: post #58
maxxxxx wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in cubicles but the noise is also driving me crazy. There is always some conversation going on somewhere. In the office I am having more and more trouble holding on to a complex thought and in the evening I am totally exhausted. On the other hand working from home feels like paradise. It's quiet and I can look out the window when I need a break. Because of the office environment I am now looking for a new job,…

I know this may sound like a poor substitute to private corporate space, but I can't praise enough the combination of noise reducing earplugs and active noise cancelling over earphones. This combo plus somafm and a pomodoro timer app can instantly boost my productivity

Wearing earplugs for long periods of time is seriously uncomfortable, plus it doesn't do good things for your ears (it can cause wax plugs to build up).

I'm only willing to wear them when I'm really desperate for sleep and I'm in a loud place, or to prevent hearing damage. Neither is an everyday occurrence.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#64

Post by nfriedly »

If you really want a private office, there are a couple of spaces available right next to mine for $225/month each - http://www.klopferbuilding.com/ ;)

Obviously you'd need to live nearby (Northwest of Dayton, OH), but houses here go for ~ $120k - https://www.redfin.com/city/16281/OH/Pleasant-Hill

You could literally retire here and work on whatever you what with a few year's worth of bay area salary. (Which is, more or less, what I intend to do.)

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#65

Post by TeMPOraL »

SethMurphy wrote: post #39

If as an engineer your only Job is to write code based on perfectly written functional specs, then open offices may not be the best. However, In larger project communication and transparency is an as important part of the job. While many people are more comfortable alone, you are part of a team and not just a coder. I find it selfish for people to feel their alone time is more important than learning how to work as a…

> While many people are more comfortable alone, you are part of a team and not just a coder. I find it selfish for people to feel their alone time is more important than learning how to work as a team.

I can't imagine a project which would justify so much "collaboration" that you have to have everyone in the same room, next to each other, all the time.

If you design your project right, you end up with each team member having a well-defined piece of work isolated behind (broadly understood) interfaces, so for most of the time they can do their actual work alone. You can do meetings and design sessions and watercooler chats to sort out what has to be done and what is the division of responsibilities, but at some point people need to actually sit down and write the code. This is a lone-man job (barring pair-programming). If you need to constantly "collaborate" while coding, you're doing something wrong.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#66

Post by CydeWeys »

At work, I currently sit in an enclosed room that fits eight SWEs, all of whom are on my team. We have sliding glass doors on the room that we only use when we're having our stand-ups so as to not disturb the people outside the room. Incoming noise never seems to be a problem. All of the conversations I overhear are from my team members, and are thus relevant to me. I also have my back facing a wall. I consider this a near ideal working environment, even better than everyone having private offices, as that seriously hampers spontaneous discussion.

In another month we'll be moving out from our room into the general open office seating area, which I'm not looking forward to. It's not even the noise that bothers me, it's the raw animal insecurity of having things going on behind your back. I get horribly distracted in a big open area when people are moving around behind me, and I thus can't concentrate effectively. I also feel self-conscious about what others can see on my screen, and can never relax. I feel a low-level anxiety from it throughout the entire work day.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#67

Post by ncFoCo »

vslira wrote: post #58
maxxxxx wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in cubicles but the noise is also driving me crazy. There is always some conversation going on somewhere. In the office I am having more and more trouble holding on to a complex thought and in the evening I am totally exhausted. On the other hand working from home feels like paradise. It's quiet and I can look out the window when I need a break. Because of the office environment I am now looking for a new job,…

I know this may sound like a poor substitute to private corporate space, but I can't praise enough the combination of noise reducing earplugs and active noise cancelling over earphones. This combo plus somafm and a pomodoro timer app can instantly boost my productivity

Yes. A few years ago I invested in the Bose QuietComfort product. I slap them on at the mere hint of a distant conversation or sound that will break my train of thought.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#68

Post by andrewflnr »

CydeWeys wrote: post #66

At work, I currently sit in an enclosed room that fits eight SWEs, all of whom are on my team. We have sliding glass doors on the room that we only use when we're having our stand-ups so as to not disturb the people outside the room. Incoming noise never seems to be a problem. All of the conversations I overhear are from my team members, and are thus relevant to me. I also have my back facing a wall. I consider this…

> raw animal insecurity of having things going on behind your back

Finally, someone else who gets it. When I've mentioned this, people tend to assume it's just about what's on your screen, but that's really not the heart of it.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#69

Post by feketegy »

Steve Jobs saw a productivity increase when he was at Pixar according to Ed Catmull's book (Creativity Inc.)

The problem is that what Mr. Catmull described as open space for creative people to let them mingle and bounce off creative ideas. That's the whole premise of an open office space.

Now, programming can be a creative field, but most of the time when I code I'd like to be quiet around me. If anybody distracts me that's an instant 15 minutes loss (at least) of whatever I was doing. At least for me.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#70

Post by dmoy »

CydeWeys wrote: post #63
vslira wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this may sound like a poor substitute to private corporate space, but I can't praise enough the combination of noise reducing earplugs and active noise cancelling over earphones. This combo plus somafm and a pomodoro timer app can instantly boost my productivity

Wearing earplugs for long periods of time is seriously uncomfortable, plus it doesn't do good things for your ears (it can cause wax plugs to build up). I'm only willing to wear them when I'm really desperate for sleep and I'm in a loud place, or to prevent hearing damage. Neither is an everyday occurrence.

On the other hand, you can get amazingly well fit ear buds for a hundred or so, and the stuff the doctor uses to irritate your ears costs like $8 over the counter....

My biggest gripe is I can't combine it with over the ear stuff for too long cus it presses my glasses against my head too hard.

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