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Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

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Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#81

Post by SethMurphy »

SethMurphy wrote: post #39

If as an engineer your only Job is to write code based on perfectly written functional specs, then open offices may not be the best. However, In larger project communication and transparency is an as important part of the job. While many people are more comfortable alone, you are part of a team and not just a coder. I find it selfish for people to feel their alone time is more important than learning how to work as a…

To be clear, I work in a very well designed, but not perfect, open office space. If somebody needs to speak with me, I am always available and consider it a strength I do not isolate myself. While my personal velocity is affected by this (hence the use of the word selfish, a descriptive but not derogatory term), the team as a whole does better for it. We do have rooms for collaboration for all meetings and ceremonies, and the desks are in octagon arrangements to minimize visual distractions. The point is that isolation is just the most obvious, but not only way to have a good environment to solve problems in.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#82

Post by CaliforniaKarl »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #17
bjourne wrote: post #10

> "Judging from the private feedback I've gotten from some Apple employees, I'm 100 per cent certain there's going to be some degree of attrition based on the open floor plans, where good employees are going to choose to leave because they don't want to work there," Gruber said. But where are they going to go? Is there a single company left that hasn't adopted the open floor plan ideology? If so, are they hiring beca…

This. I so strongly wish companies would start including their office arrangement in the job description. It would make it easier for me to avoid open-plan places, and it would let those who like them avoid offices/cubicles - thus making it more likely employees will feel good and thus work at peak productivity. It would also let the industry gather some real feedback about people's preferences. I don't really see a…

OK, let's try that ~15 days from now, when the next "Who's Hiring?" post goes live.

Edit: Here's my suggestion: In the first line of the post, insert one of the following key words:

• "OFFICEn": Replace 'n' with a number ≥ 0 and ≤ 3, this means you will be in an office with 'n' other people. So, "OFFICE0" means you'll be in an office by yourself. 'Office' means a space with floor-to-ceiling walls _and_ a door you can close, and where the door leads into another company-owned space (like a hallway, or open area).

• "CUBEn": Replace 'n' with a number > 0, this means you'll be in a cubicle where the cube walls are 'n' feet tall (measured from the floor).

• "OPEN": You'll be in a space where there are no walls separating you from your immediate co-workers. It is possible for you to stare straight ahead, rotate your chair 90° (in either direction, relative to your normal work position), and be looking at one of your co-workers.

In addition to one of the three words, the following word can be prefixed:

• "HOT": The space you'll work in is not specifically assigned to you. Instead, you will simply find an open space of this type, possibly working in a different location each day.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#83

Post by mrtksn »

justherefortart wrote: post #40
heisenbit wrote: post #4

Steve Jobs is said to have poured in a lot of thought on how the architecture of the building is supporting work. Steve also had some architectural experience from Pixar. On the macro level the alignment of the architecture with the organization as it was explained always made sense to me. On the micro level changing from offices to open floor is a huge change. How was that supposed to preserve and foster the enginee…

For all the loving of open offices, I've never seen an exec that works in an open area themselves. I heard about one, but never saw it with my own eyes. This is in 30+ years of working.

On my previous job I sat right next to VP of product but she would often use the office of the SVP who is not around most of the time.

Open space office with more than 50 people on each floor, it was very interesting for a while(as you can see how $2B business is run in one picture) but it was one of the primary reasons I quit.

Beyond the ongoing noice and distractions, it doesn't allow you to have cycles of work and thought. Well, I actually would have them but it feels weird to be the guy who stares at random things and people for prolonged time :)

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#84

Post by sogen »

nfriedly wrote: post #64

If you really want a private office, there are a couple of spaces available right next to mine for $225/month each - http://www.klopferbuilding.com/ ;) Obviously you'd need to live nearby (Northwest of Dayton, OH), but houses here go for ~ $120k - https://www.redfin.com/city/16281/OH/Pleasant-Hill You could literally retire here and work on whatever you what with a few year's worth of bay area salary. (Which is, more…

Hi, what's the crime rate there? Does it snow a lot?

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#85

Post by dleslie »

andrewflnr wrote: post #68
CydeWeys wrote: post #66

At work, I currently sit in an enclosed room that fits eight SWEs, all of whom are on my team. We have sliding glass doors on the room that we only use when we're having our stand-ups so as to not disturb the people outside the room. Incoming noise never seems to be a problem. All of the conversations I overhear are from my team members, and are thus relevant to me. I also have my back facing a wall. I consider this…

> raw animal insecurity of having things going on behind your back Finally, someone else who gets it. When I've mentioned this, people tend to assume it's just about what's on your screen, but that's really not the heart of it.

I once was placed with my back to the entrance doors of the office, which frequently had people coming and going. HR and IT were both in arms when I rotated my desk around.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#86

Post by bitlax »

tinus_hn wrote: post #37
StronglyTyped wrote: post #15

Where are they gonna go, though? The whole Valley has succumbed to this fad.

Yeah, all those idiot successful companies succumbing to this fad. It's probably some kind of conspiracy!

Maybe now Apple will be a successful company!

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#87

Post by acty1 »

Once you work remotely (and you have your own office, in your own house) you feel bad, terribly sorry for anyone that stays in an open office "cultured" tech company making 200k+ per year.

The quality of life and lack of freedom you exchange for the "next 100k" above and beyond a 100k base Salary is never worth it.

Time and health is your most precious resource and asset. And many are deluded into thinking it's ok to trade that for (what they mistakingly) thing is a lot of money (hint: it's not when taking taxes, commute and accomodation into account)

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#88

Post by needsilence »

classybull wrote: post #42
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a great idea - as there are very few these companies, their ads would stand out. Honestly, I don't know one single developer who loves open-plan places and wouldn't like to have a quiet room to work in. Most just wear headphones and try to eliminate cognitive noise in every way they can.

I enjoy them. It strikes me as extremely odd that the main complaint against open floor plans is that they kill productivity. This is such a complaint that there's people up and down this post moaning in agony as if it were literal torture that they're unable to be as productive as possible. Personally, I don't think that a company is entitled to me working at 100% productivity constantly, because I value my sanity t…

I used to work at a bank service center. It was a cube farm filled with mostly 30 to 60-year-old women. There was occasional chatter, but it was so perfectly quiet all the time. And that's with people talking to bankers on phones.

Now I work with a bunch of 20 and 30-something men and it's like I'm back in college. Sorry, but I don't needn't to hear you not be able to control the volume of your voice for two hours on Google Hangouts. Sorry, I don't need to hear you sing to yourself while I try to desperately glue back together the thoughts in my head after you shattered them with your noise.

It's not about wringing every last drop of productivity out for your employer, it's about getting anything productive done at all. And I don't think it's asking too much for a quiet, peaceful office environment to be the default. If you want to screw around and talk at a volume that is inappropriately high, take it to the pub.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#89

Post by CydeWeys »

dleslie wrote: post #85
andrewflnr wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> raw animal insecurity of having things going on behind your back Finally, someone else who gets it. When I've mentioned this, people tend to assume it's just about what's on your screen, but that's really not the heart of it.

I once was placed with my back to the entrance doors of the office, which frequently had people coming and going. HR and IT were both in arms when I rotated my desk around.

That desk situation sounds like my worst nightmare.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#90

Post by CydeWeys »

cm2012 wrote: post #78
dmoy wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, you can get amazingly well fit ear buds for a hundred or so, and the stuff the doctor uses to irritate your ears costs like $8 over the counter.... My biggest gripe is I can't combine it with over the ear stuff for too long cus it presses my glasses against my head too hard.

Lasik is totally worth it btw.

Not for those of us who have dreams of going into space someday.

(This isn't a joke, by the way.)

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