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Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

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Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#31

Post by codyb »

Good.

Apple is one of my favorite companies. I just absolutely love what they're doing and have done in terms of personal privacy.

I'm really disheartened that they've moved to an open office layout. It's a surefire way to lose huge amounts of productivity from their engineers.

Open office layouts are a travesty. They make literally no fucking sense. As engineers we're expected to maintain abstractions in our minds which can span hundreds if not thousands of lines of code.

So why would you put us in the middle of a fucking zoo?

I can hear sports TV while I try to work. I can hear my friends/coworkers shoot the shit about the new South Park or Game of Thrones episode while I work. I can hear people talk about their weekend plans while I work. I can hear my coworkers planning projects I'm not involved in as I work.

And here I am, expectected, as a full stack engineer, to abstract complex data flows while all of this is going on.

To produce, while all of this is going on.

And do not forget that even if every single person was a deaf mute, their mere presence can knock me out of the zone.

I remember college. I remember working on projects and losing track of time. Because back then I had a room where I could work without distraction. Boy, how wonderful, to be so absorbed as to forget how much time has passed.

I literally have never felt that in an open office layout. It sucks. I love what I do. Why take that pleasure away from us?

It burns me out.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#32

Post by pjc50 »

I'm always reminded of those stock photos of typing pools or pre-computer accountants, where you had a vast noisy field of people (usually gender-segregated) clattering away on typewriters: http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/photo/secretarial-pool-1...

Really if there is to be a change in the industry it has to be led at the biggest, most fashionable employer. Everyone else will then be able to follow suit without the tedious need to actually think about the problem.

(Maybe there will even be a union threatening a strike over working conditions?)

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#33

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #17
bjourne wrote: post #10

> "Judging from the private feedback I've gotten from some Apple employees, I'm 100 per cent certain there's going to be some degree of attrition based on the open floor plans, where good employees are going to choose to leave because they don't want to work there," Gruber said. But where are they going to go? Is there a single company left that hasn't adopted the open floor plan ideology? If so, are they hiring beca…

This. I so strongly wish companies would start including their office arrangement in the job description. It would make it easier for me to avoid open-plan places, and it would let those who like them avoid offices/cubicles - thus making it more likely employees will feel good and thus work at peak productivity. It would also let the industry gather some real feedback about people's preferences. I don't really see a…

It's a great idea - as there are very few these companies, their ads would stand out. Honestly, I don't know one single developer who loves open-plan places and wouldn't like to have a quiet room to work in. Most just wear headphones and try to eliminate cognitive noise in every way they can.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#34

Post by MBCook »

pjc50 wrote: post #32

I'm always reminded of those stock photos of typing pools or pre-computer accountants, where you had a vast noisy field of people (usually gender-segregated) clattering away on typewriters: http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/photo/secretarial-pool-1... Really if there is to be a change in the industry it has to be led at the biggest, most fashionable employer. Everyone else will then be able to follow suit without t…

Apple is hardly the first to do this, many other large companies already have.

The problem is the people doing typing pools or accountants weren’t doing creative work, they were doing more rote tasks. They weren’t trying to come up with complex abstract thoughts or get into a state of flow so the additional noise wasn’t as big a deal.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#35

Post by yosito »

Every time I hear someone complain about open offices, I want to say "Shhh! They'll send us all back to our cubicles and chain us to our desks!". Seriously, if you have an open office it's not that hard to put headphones in or pop into a side office for some focus time. But being required to spend 40 hours a week alone in a tiny box is my personal definition of hell.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#36

Post by MBCook »

tomohawk wrote: post #2

Such a failure to learn. The US school system went through this with "open classrooms". Schools were built to support the idea of no walls between classrooms. For years, teachers trying to maintain sanity erected temporary dividers. These days, most of those schools have been rehabbed to include actual walls, or they've been demo'd. Such a waste.

They just built a new school like that near me, and my understanding is that many teachers didn’t want to work there because of it. I can’t believe they’re still trying that stuff.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#38

Post by thinbeige »

I am no fan of open-plan office or just going to an office but there is a huge difference between a cramped open-plan office and one where you have so much space around your and your peer's desk that you need a hoverboard to get to the next couple of coworkers. Also carpets, semi-wall, calling booths can make a difference.

So what I want to say is that every open-plan offices is different and yes, most are terrible. But I guess that if somebody made them right it must be Apple?!

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#39

Post by SethMurphy »

If as an engineer your only Job is to write code based on perfectly written functional specs, then open offices may not be the best. However, In larger project communication and transparency is an as important part of the job. While many people are more comfortable alone, you are part of a team and not just a coder. I find it selfish for people to feel their alone time is more important than learning how to work as a team. Noise canceling headphones do wonders when you need to focus.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#40

Post by justherefortart »

heisenbit wrote: post #4

Steve Jobs is said to have poured in a lot of thought on how the architecture of the building is supporting work. Steve also had some architectural experience from Pixar. On the macro level the alignment of the architecture with the organization as it was explained always made sense to me. On the micro level changing from offices to open floor is a huge change. How was that supposed to preserve and foster the enginee…

For all the loving of open offices, I've never seen an exec that works in an open area themselves. I heard about one, but never saw it with my own eyes.

This is in 30+ years of working.

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