Interestingly, Facebook did remove its PATENTS clause on another project they have recently - zstd - https://github.com/facebook/zstd/pull/801
Oh that's awesome. I had been wondering about zstd!
On React and WordPress
181–190 of 212 posts
Re: On React and WordPress
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think preact since they already used react and will only delay them a few weeks preact seems like the more sensible option
I'm unclear on whether Preact solves the issue. On one hand - it's close that it probably infringes on the any patents that cover React On the other - it's not infringing patents that scares people - it's the patent clause in the React licence. If you're not using React, you're not accepting this licence. So Preact seems like it would safe enough - unless you believe that Facebook would one day go on the offensive wi…
What react-specific patents do they have? Preact only borrows concepts like VDOM and the component lifecycle (which isn't new), it's not implemented the same. They share the same API but that's just a name against common events in a component lifecycle, and is mostly for interop and developer ease. I don't see how they could do anything to shut down Preact, though IANAL.
Re: On React and WordPress
#183The Drupal community struggled a bit with the decision as well (see https://www.drupal.org/node/2645250 ). It seems there are a number of open source communities and enterprise development shops who are just not comfortable with the patent clause. React had a lot of momentum, but it seems alternatives like Vue.js are going to be the long-term winners in terms of being 'the next jQuery' in terms of longevity as a fron…
I don't think there will ever be another jQuery. Just like there won't be another Michael Jackson. The world is balkanizing, different people use different tools and listen to different music in a way that wasn't typical 10 years ago.
Re: On React and WordPress
#184I'm here to say that the Gutenberg team is going to take a step back and rewrite Gutenberg using a different library. It will likely delay Gutenberg at least a few weeks, and may push the release into next year. Just a few weeks? Is it that trivial to swap out a library?
Apparently the Gutenberg Element concept (https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/tree/master/element) wraps React to minimize contact with React itself. So converting to Preact might not take over long. Note that I haven't dug very far into the Gutenberg codebase so at the moment I am just supposing.
Re: On React and WordPress
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Personally, I have a hard time imagining that any Facebook patents you use with React wouldn't also apply to Preact. Then again, I think this whole patents issue is mostly FUD. The number of companies who have to reasonably consider suing Facebook for patent infringement is small and they know who they are.
My understanding is that you lose access to React if you sue Facebook over any patents at all, not just ones that may be relative to React.
IANAL but:
"Additional Grant of Patent Rights Version 2 ... The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and without notice, if you (or any of your subsidiaries, corporate affiliates or agents) initiate directly or indirectly, or take a direct financial interest in, any Patent Assertion"
Seems clear to me that you lose the license to use React. The clause that terminates the license is contained in a grant of rights, but the license it refers to, is the license to which this grant of rights is an "addition".
Moreover:
"A "Patent Assertion" is any lawsuit or other action alleging direct, indirect, or contributory infringement or inducement to infringe any patent, including a cross-claim or counterclaim."
The "other action" is pretty broad and might as well include "use your patents in any way that goes against the interests of Facebook".
Reading legal documents with a benevolent attitude towards the claims, intentions and goals of the issuer is a pretty bad idea. If anyone decides they won't ever have or deal with patents and thus they are free of danger, that risk is up to them; but don't do it because you think the clauses only cover a narrow and unlikely set of situations.
Re: On React and WordPress
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
> nobody has found any patents filed by Facebook that would actually cover any part of React, Somebody on /r/ posted this[0]. [0]: https://www.google.com/patents/US20170221242
And I responded with this (curious for informed feedback): I just read it. I can't believe this patent was granted. If I'm reading it correctly, it's a patent for an old trick used by every OS and video game ever made. Basically, don't redraw things that aren't in view, and only redraw the bits of things that are in view. Anyway, I can't see how this is applicable to React, as it really isn't how the v-dom works at a…
Welcome to a larger world. The bulk of patents in the US seem ridiculous.
Re: On React and WordPress
#187Re: On React and WordPress
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand this: how are you not strictly better off with the patent grant? This whole fiasco seems to be nothing but FUD. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14780979 tl;dr: License with no patent grant: Facebook can sue you for infringing patents, even if you are using a clone! License with patent grant: Facebook cannot sue you for infringing patents, unless you do it first.
The patent grant isn't the problem it's the termination on any action against Facebook. Hence if Facebook infringes on patents you own you can't take action against them if you are using React.
>you can't take action against them if you are using React.
Umm, no. You can still sue them, but the patent grant is nullified, which takes you back to the place where no such patent grant exists.
Hence, you're strictly better off with the grant.
Re: On React and WordPress
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not "termination on any action against Facebook", the termination is only for: 1. filing a patent infringement against Facebook (for anything, related or unrelated to React) 2. filing a patent infringement counterclaim against Facebook for patents related to React (after Facebook have first filed a patent infringement claim against you for patents on anything) 3. filing a patent infringement against anyone for p…
> You can take action against them, you just don't have a patent grant once you do. Which opens you up to being countered-sued right? It seems that this leaves Facebook to freely infringe on any patents of React users without consequence.
As I replied above, this takes you to the same place without a patent grant.
Re: On React and WordPress
#190People who ridicule the notion of FUD causing actual harm, pay attention: this is a perfect example of the chilling effects of FUD on software projects. Automattic didn't drop React because it doesn't like the license. Automattic dropped React because the FUD surrounding React's license might rub off on them (and WordPress). It's their right to do so and it's in the best interest of WordPress to avoid being dragged i…
A deeply arrogant and ignorant notion. If you think this was about FUD you really don't understand why people protest React as a core component inside WordPress. Most people are well aware that they are unlikely to get into any kind of legal dispute with Facebook or otherwise. Nor is it an issue that Facebook chooses to license React the way it wants. And the majority are against software patents.
> A deeply arrogant and ignorant notion.
This sentence is quite arrogant in itself.
> If you think this was about FUD you really don't understand why people protest React as a core component inside WordPress.
Then please explain what this is about? Numerous other posts in this thread (including mine) have explained that you are strictly better off with the PATENT grant. I have yet to see a post that explains why this is bad without FUD.