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On React and WordPress

ma.tt

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Re: On React and WordPress

#111

Post by Flenser »

K0nserv wrote: post #110
Flenser wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "termination on any action against Facebook", the termination is only for: 1. filing a patent infringement against Facebook (for anything, related or unrelated to React) 2. filing a patent infringement counterclaim against Facebook for patents related to React (after Facebook have first filed a patent infringement claim against you for patents on anything) 3. filing a patent infringement against anyone for p…

> You can take action against them, you just don't have a patent grant once you do. Which opens you up to being countered-sued right? It seems that this leaves Facebook to freely infringe on any patents of React users without consequence.

Only if they have a patent on [edit: something in] React, or on anything else that you use (regardless of it's from Facebook)

[edit2]

Also, patent lawsuits are costly. If you're going to start one against Facebook the cost of switching away from React first would be negligible.

Re: On React and WordPress

#112

Post by rk06 »

danmaz74 wrote: post #99
ryanswapp wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the risk of running into legal trouble with Facebook is pretty low for many companies. However, that doesn't make it feel any less dirty. It would be nice if the lawyers at Facebook would take a chill pill on this one but that will never happen. It will be interesting to see where OSS projects from Facebook go moving forward given that the noise surrounding their patent clause seems to get louder and lou…

Vue.js... Which is totally guaranteed to not be covered by any possible Facebook patents related to react, right?

That logic can also be used for Angular 2, Preact, inferno etc. So it is meaningless

Stop spreading FUD.

Re: On React and WordPress

#113

Post by us0r »

The last time the PATENTS file was changed was 3 years ago. It has passed the smell test for Microsoft (and dozens of other large companies) with literal buildings full of attorneys who have more experience with licenses, patents and everything between then most.

This issue seems to be a bunch of nothing. What am I missing here?

Re: On React and WordPress

#114

Post by mbrock »

egeozcan wrote: post #106
mbrock wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how it works. The patents file does not take away any rights or impose any obligations. You already have a license to use the React software, because it comes with a BSD license. The patents file is an additional grant of rights. Specifically, the right to immunity against Facebook patents related to React, unless you have yourself initiated a patent lawsuit against Facebook. The Apache License and the Moz…

Oh I see. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Just have these questions: Without that patents file and the rights granted within, could Facebook theoretically sue you for infringing their patents by using their own open-source software? If not, what's the raison d'être for such a grant?

This is the question of whether free software licenses without patent granting clauses have an "implicit patent license", and from what I can tell it's not clear cut.

http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Implicit_patent_licence

It seems likely that judges would agree that free software licenses come with some sort of implied patent license, but it's unclear how that interacts with modification and redistribution, etc.

Re: On React and WordPress

#115

Post by pluma »

People who ridicule the notion of FUD causing actual harm, pay attention: this is a perfect example of the chilling effects of FUD on software projects.

Automattic didn't drop React because it doesn't like the license. Automattic dropped React because the FUD surrounding React's license might rub off on them (and WordPress). It's their right to do so and it's in the best interest of WordPress to avoid being dragged into the patent FUD but it's important to understand that this isn't an act of protest against Facebook, it's FUD in full effect.

Re: On React and WordPress

#116

Post by bodegajed »

skrebbel wrote: post #68

Note that WordPress is ditching React not because they believe there's any problem with React's license and patent grant, but because they think their users will be confused and angry . In other words, the baseless and meritless outcry about a perfectly OK patent grant caused this, not the patent grant itself. The subject became taboo, like female nipples in America, and WordPress doesn't want anything to do with the…

> baseless and meritless

Are you expert in patent law for you to come up with that conclusion though? I you're not a lawyer then your assumption that it's a perfectly OK patent grant is baseless and meritless as well.

Re: On React and WordPress

#117

Post by pluma »

Flenser wrote: post #92
pluma wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vue seems the obvious contender but I doubt completely replacing React with Vue this far into development would only cause a delay of a few weeks. Preact or Inferno seem far more likely, considering they won't require massive rewrites.

"A very large software company that use Inferno in production already had their legal team look into Inferno. It didn't infringe on any patents." — Dominic Gannaway, creator of infernojs https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14783208

...yet.

Re: On React and WordPress

#118

Post by notacoward »

skrebbel wrote: post #68

Note that WordPress is ditching React not because they believe there's any problem with React's license and patent grant, but because they think their users will be confused and angry . In other words, the baseless and meritless outcry about a perfectly OK patent grant caused this, not the patent grant itself. The subject became taboo, like female nipples in America, and WordPress doesn't want anything to do with the…

> WordPress doesn't want anything to do with the nipples of the open source community.

Thanks for that image.

Re: On React and WordPress

#119

Post by bodegajed »

pluma wrote: post #115

People who ridicule the notion of FUD causing actual harm, pay attention: this is a perfect example of the chilling effects of FUD on software projects. Automattic didn't drop React because it doesn't like the license. Automattic dropped React because the FUD surrounding React's license might rub off on them (and WordPress). It's their right to do so and it's in the best interest of WordPress to avoid being dragged i…

Comfort can hurt. Automattic is not comfortable with the Facebook license and you say it like it's a baseless FUD but even if they get a 1% chance of going to court against Facebook then they rather not take that risk of litigation anytime in the future. It's a business decision for the long term as rewriting doesn't cost that much for them.

Re: On React and WordPress

#120

Post by onli »

bodegajed wrote: post #119
pluma wrote: post #115

People who ridicule the notion of FUD causing actual harm, pay attention: this is a perfect example of the chilling effects of FUD on software projects. Automattic didn't drop React because it doesn't like the license. Automattic dropped React because the FUD surrounding React's license might rub off on them (and WordPress). It's their right to do so and it's in the best interest of WordPress to avoid being dragged i…

Comfort can hurt. Automattic is not comfortable with the Facebook license and you say it like it's a baseless FUD but even if they get a 1% chance of going to court against Facebook then they rather not take that risk of litigation anytime in the future. It's a business decision for the long term as rewriting doesn't cost that much for them.

No, that's not what the article says. It says the fears around the license are something they do not want to have to address within their ecosystem. Wordpress itself is comfortable with the license. There is no fear of going to court.
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