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How Eve Players Pulled Off the Biggest Betrayal in Its History

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Re: How Eve Players Pulled Off the Biggest Betrayal in Its History

#131

Post by chii »

FreezerburnV wrote: post #125
kstrauser wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jump in! Disclaimer: you will die. Lots. The adage is "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". There's no equivalent of "this is my special invulnerable armor and the sword of my great-grandfather", because when someone inevitably comes along and blows you up, it'll be their special invulnerable armor etc. Also, the concepts of fraud, scams, and so on are unusual in Eve in that they're actively encouraged, or at le…

Based on the number of incredibly clever scams that exist, extreme paranoia is correct. If something looks too good to be true, it is VERY likely to be a scam. (e.g.: there are scams built around selling an item for a price that is lower than a buy order somewhere, seemingly promising free money, but when you attempt to sell the expensive item, it'll get rejected due to some quirks in how some systems interact)

> get rejected due to some quirks in how some systems interac

i dont think that works anymore now? Not sure...but it's human nature to scam! There's been so many pyramid schemes it's not funny!

Re: How Eve Players Pulled Off the Biggest Betrayal in Its History

#132

Post by chii »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #114
corobo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP "Oh man that looks so awesome!" Parent: "I'll stick to solitaire" The idea behind Eve is extremely appealing but damn if I'm not just done with people screaming into a microphone. I'll stick to reading the postmortems after interesting things happen

> damn if I'm not just done with people screaming into a microphone. Aside from the huge time-sink that's involved in any MMO, I mostly don't want to have to have a part-time job playing politics. That's what kills it for me; I love that Eve Online exists, but I have zero interest whatsoever building a whole other parallel set of friendships, alliances, etc. outside of my current life. Even if they were the nicest an…

> I have zero interest whatsoever building a whole other parallel set of friendships, alliances, etc. outside of my current life.

yes, some people call EVE their life, and their irl is just something to get money. It's certainly not for everyone.

Re: How Eve Players Pulled Off the Biggest Betrayal in Its History

#133

Post by technofiend »

chii wrote: post #129
technofiend wrote: post #123

Eve is an excellent example of a game with mostly user-supplied content in a loose framework. The game supplies a physics engine and basic rules for game components, but beyond that it is an open world. This is both a strength and a weakness: the game itself isn't that interesting or challenging without interacting with other people. But you can't really see all the game's content because so much territory is control…

> "care bear" mode that didn't allow player-vs-player (PVP) that would not be a game of EVE. It would be World of Warcraft, but in space. And not a particularly good one either. The uniqueness of EVE _is_ the free-form, non-consensual PVP. Just like in real life, you cannot say no to being mugged, or ganged upon. When making friends, you cannot really know to trust them, and if you do find trust worthy friends, you f…

>The uniqueness of EVE _is_ the free-form, non-consensual PVP.

It's just another bit in a database and only one aspect of the game. Sure, there are 1,000 experiences in Eve you'll never get anywhere else - from spinning wormholes trying to find a dread enemy, to station spinning out of utter boredom because your station is bubbled to hell and back.

However it's simply not possible to see all the content on-offer in the game because PVP precludes it. I realize for some people the idea of EVE without PVP is inconceivable and that's fine, I'm just saying it's too bad because it would be fun to be able to see all of the game and enjoy other aspects of it that are suppressed by the ever present threat of PVP.

Re: How Eve Players Pulled Off the Biggest Betrayal in Its History

#134

Post by ethbro »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #113
Ntrails wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was significantly helped by the three of them being on a player elected group of representatives to the developers, that meets in person a few times a year. He was literally turned against his own alliance whilst under CCP supervision. This is not quite as good as the old BoB one, but it's still a massive win for Aryth/Imperium. The "Lannister paying their debts" smugposting levels are incredible

> whilst under CCP supervision Doesn't CCP typically have a vaguely hands-off approach when it comes to in-game politics, as long as it stays in-game? It's not like CCP's job it so enforce loyalty and fairness.

Absolutely. One of their tenets for world management has always been "Any action that is allowed by in-game mechanics will be allowed to stand."

They don't do much handholding.

Re: How Eve Players Pulled Off the Biggest Betrayal in Its History

#135

Post by chii »

sbov wrote: post #120
rhaps0dy wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which suits a lot of people fine. So long as you get to participate in these massive battles... I've never played it though.

The massive battles are pretty boring. They also last forever because they slow the game down to something like 10% speed to help the servers keep up. It's way more fun reading about them.

massive battles are what makes it to the press, but the real fun is in small skirmishes in unconquerable space (wormhole space). The game mechanics prevents massive swarms - so you'll be fighting highly elite, small groups (in the order of 5-10), in small to medium sized ships.

It takes skill, dedication, as well as some luck (since you can't tell who is in the "system" with you in wormhole space, unlike in regular space). You have to constantly do scan, and entrances and exists shift (so you _can_ get stuck with no way back).

But that's the fun of it!

Re: How Eve Players Pulled Off the Biggest Betrayal in Its History

#136

Post by chii »

busterarm wrote: post #37
mattmanser wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big trouble with eve is the time/reward factor. Ultimately you can spend a whole night trying to find fights in Eve and get 2 or 3 fights that last 20 seconds. Or you can play 10 matches of overwatch or CS:Go or DOTA that last 30 minutes in the same time. It still doesn't have a decent competitor though, elite dangerous is rubbish, still waiting on Star Citizen.

I mainly play DOTA these days. In a sense you aren't wrong. There's a lot more to the game than PvP though. If you want the kind of rigid corp structure EVE offers but in a high-action game, I'd say look at some of the dedicated ArmA groups; particularly ShackTac. The combat side of EVE is best played as more of a situation room. Sit and monitor comms and see what's going on over a wide area of space (read a book or…

DOTA (and the aformentioned eSports games) are not games, but competitions (aka, sport).

EVE is a role playing game - you play the role _you_ want to play! You live a life in EVE, as though you might live a life in the real world. You choose to trust people and make friends, may be get betrayed, or do the betraying yourself.

You fight an enemy because he/she is trying to steal your stuff, or take over an area that you want to keep owning.

Even though eSports games have more action, it's not the same kind of thing, and there's less thrill because losses in eSports are temporary. There's always a next game. Losses in EVE feels real, because they _are_ real!

Re: How Eve Players Pulled Off the Biggest Betrayal in Its History

#137

Post by ethbro »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #114
corobo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP "Oh man that looks so awesome!" Parent: "I'll stick to solitaire" The idea behind Eve is extremely appealing but damn if I'm not just done with people screaming into a microphone. I'll stick to reading the postmortems after interesting things happen

> damn if I'm not just done with people screaming into a microphone. Aside from the huge time-sink that's involved in any MMO, I mostly don't want to have to have a part-time job playing politics. That's what kills it for me; I love that Eve Online exists, but I have zero interest whatsoever building a whole other parallel set of friendships, alliances, etc. outside of my current life. Even if they were the nicest an…

I haven't played in years, but last I did there was a huge range in engagement levels to have "fun".

With one or two friends, I'd say one could have a blast pirating for a couple years. It's one of the higher doing_fun_things:total_time_playing ratios I've found in a multiplayer game.

The balance is really well done. Two specialized smaller ships > one general larger ship. And coordinating on voicecoms after you've got the normal sequence of actions down doesn't sound that different than a sci-fi series.

"Jumping. Two contacts. Found them on the belt 5. Miners, no escort. In position to warp disrupt. Popping bubble and web. Tackled. Jump, jump, jump." (Plan comes together, fireworks ensue)

And in general, most people keep it in perspective. Hence "it's just internet spaceships" jokes.

Re: How Eve Players Pulled Off the Biggest Betrayal in Its History

#138

Post by tshadley »

hellofunk wrote: post #74

I must be completely out of touch, because I could not make heads or tails of nearly any word in this article. In fact, I'm so out of touch, I couldn't tell if I was reading a real news item or a piece of short fiction. Damn there some areas of the tech scene that are as foreign to me as, say, hitching a tent along the Antarctic coast.

> I must be completely out of touch, because I could not make heads or tails of nearly any word in this article.

Me too! What I struggle with most is trying to grasp where human motives fit into the game structure. Each aspect of the game must be a parallel or metaphor for real life situations that engage and appeal to intrinsic elements of human nature. But it's described almost in reverse, as if the names, the battles, the political structures are what matter. No, what truly matters is why each a player voluntarily spends vast amounts of time seated motionless in front of a screen. That's what's truly interesting (and I guess can probably only be really grasped by playing).

Re: How Eve Players Pulled Off the Biggest Betrayal in Its History

#139

Post by travisjungroth »

kstrauser wrote: post #105
antihero wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you actually see battles happening now or is it still "get one updated frame every few minutes"? I remember back in the day when we had 1,000+ ships in a system attacking LV and basically you used to just sit there and hope that what you were doing was having any effect at all.

It's realtime. You're flying spaceships around, targeting enemies, and getting shot at with the only speed limit being how quickly you can shift attention to the next important thing.

There is a mechanic that when there are too many ships in one place, time slows down.

Re: How Eve Players Pulled Off the Biggest Betrayal in Its History

#140

Post by redler »

murderfs wrote: post #61
mrdmnd wrote: post #28

I don't play EVE because there are already enough demands on my time, but damned if this commercial (entirely done with voice comms) hasn't come close to pushing me over the edge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdfFnTt2UT0

This is a more realistic version, IMO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmS9vcVNr5A

So...a lot of loud dudes. Do any women play this game?
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