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Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

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Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the progressive tax structure that's the problem, it's the fact that cap gains are taxed at a much lower rate than other forms of income.

That's to encourage money to be invested and also to compensate for the risks.

Yes and we've seen the outcome - top 1% benefits too much, and results in too much concentration of wealth (along with other structural issues).

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#32
post #2

Because politicians sell progressive income taxes as a way to screw the rich, when it actually just screws the upper middle class, since the actual rich don't have jobs to tax the income from.

It's not the progressive tax structure that's the problem, it's the fact that cap gains are taxed at a much lower rate than other forms of income.

We should tax consumption, not income.

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the progressive tax structure that's the problem, it's the fact that cap gains are taxed at a much lower rate than other forms of income.

That's to encourage money to be invested and also to compensate for the risks.

If I had the money, I'd renovate my roof, get a solar roof with battery backup, etc. It's an investment just as much as in any business; why am I discriminated against as an individual?

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the progressive tax structure that's the problem, it's the fact that cap gains are taxed at a much lower rate than other forms of income.

That's to encourage money to be invested and also to compensate for the risks.

No, that's a post-facto justification trotted out whenever someone questions the capital gains rate.

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#35

> Americans in the top 1 percent, and especially the top 0.1 percent, have seen their wealth and income multiply in recent decades as the rest of the country’s share of the economic pie shrank. Since 2000, a recent study found, the top 1 percent have made those gains almost entirely on income from capital, especially corporate stock—not on labor income. One reason may be the financial options of the wealthy: Business…

I am confused. If you put your bonus into a corporation, you will have to pay tax twice, the corporate tax and your personal tax. And if your corporation is an LLC, it all flows through to your personal taxes anyway. So, I don't see how you shelter this just by putting into a corporation.

Salaries (and bonuses) are considered expenses for the company and will be tax deductible.

I believe the example was that you may as a contractor (with your own company) receive a bonus to your corporation and be able to offset taxes for another 11 months compared to having the bonus paid out personally.

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#36
post #21
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it that way. When you invest you risk the capital. You might get a return, you might not and therefore the taxation rules should reflect that. The situation as a worker is different. The only risk you take is that you might select a bad company.

> You might get a return, you might not and therefore the taxation rules should reflect that. So... you take a loss on your taxes, probably spreading it out in some way so you don't pay taxes for a few years, if it's a serious enough loss. Right? Why does the rate need to be different?

Probably spreading it out in some way? You must also have a have a future gain to offset that loss. The rate difference is to compensate for the risk that you are taking by investing the money. Again, as a worker you have essentially no risk of capital (only of effort).

Furthermore, I think you are misunderstanding the double taxation argument. The double taxation arises because the company has already payed tax on their profits.

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#37

> Americans in the top 1 percent, and especially the top 0.1 percent, have seen their wealth and income multiply in recent decades as the rest of the country’s share of the economic pie shrank. Since 2000, a recent study found, the top 1 percent have made those gains almost entirely on income from capital, especially corporate stock—not on labor income. One reason may be the financial options of the wealthy: Business…

They're currently trying to close a couple of those loopholes here in Canada, and it's surprising how much traction the complaints against the reforms are getting. The opponents are claiming that the reforms are going to devastate family doctors and family farms. The complaints are mostly bogus, but people don't understand tax law so are vulnerable to an emotional plea.

As someone who works at a startup and has interacted with many others, there is some merit to the claims. I agree that these loopholes should be closed and the tax system reformed, but I think we should be careful to do it in such a way that doesn't negatively affect e.g. companies like the one I work for, which went from three people to 70 and millions in revenue in just a few years.

Especially as Vancouver is trying to build its tech and entrepreneurial ecosystem, it's important to ensure that we aren't driving away or hindering small businesses to grow while also not letting huge corporations like TD, Telus, or Apple get the biggest benefits from the tax system the more money they have.

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#38
I recognize that most of the readers are socialist progressives. That's not a bad thing, I'm here to challenge you to consider that a flat tax (no tiers) takes out all of the room to maneuver and cheat. You make a dollar? Good for you, give 20 cents to the federal government. Simple. And EVERYONE should pay their 20 cents. I don't like this meme that "it will hurt the poor." Right now, the poor can "vote for Santa Clause" because they have no skin in the game. I think that everyone would be more civic-minded, if they actually carried an equal share of the pain of taxes.

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#39
One of the arguments for low long term capital gains taxes is that investments carry higher risk and volatility than wages. Accumulated wages grow monotonically but investments are inherently volatile and there is always the risk of losing everything

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#40
"Taxing investors less is really not what the U.S. needs now,” Saez said. “Instead, we should focus on trying to rebuild middle-class wealth” by encouraging families to save for retirement and pay down mortgages."

How do you encourage families to save for retirement? isn't a lower tax rate on investment income a way to do that?

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