Live data from Hacker News

Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

bloomberg.com

11–20 of 323 posts

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#11
post #2

Because politicians sell progressive income taxes as a way to screw the rich, when it actually just screws the upper middle class, since the actual rich don't have jobs to tax the income from.

There are many people making over $200,000/yr. With 20 years of investing $150,000 of that, it's incredibly easy to have over $6.5 million. I don't see why it can't be a two-pronged approach with both higher income taxes and wealth taxes. It's what was done in the 1950's, and there was still plenty of wealth then.

> It's what was done in the 1950's, and there was still plenty of wealth then.

That time period was one of great prosperity that won't be repeated. Market returns were higher; most of the low hanging fruit has been plucked, and you can expect ~5% in equities returns. Its going to take far more capital now to get the same returns your grandparents had, which is why you see capital chasing returns across the world.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/07/get-ready-for-dramatically-l...

"The leaders of Vanguard Group, overseers of some $4 trillion in client assets, have been advising investors to expect a typical 60 percent stocks/40 percent bonds portfolio to deliver two- to- three percentage points less in nominal annual returns than its long-term norm. (Since 1926, such an asset mix has returned better than 8.5 percent annualized.)"

"Other forecasts are even less generous. Research Affiliates, a quantitative and "smart beta" fund manager, projects that U.S. stocks might only offer one percent a year for the next decade, after inflation. This is based largely on the so-called Shiller P/E, a ratio of the S&P 500 index to its trailing ten-year average earnings, which is now above 29 and higher than any period aside from the run-up to the 1929 and 2000 market peaks."

"And with risk-free 10-year government debt yielding a skimpy 2.3 percent in the U.S. and far less elsewhere, all other financial assets have repriced for skimpier future returns as well."

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#12
post #2

Because politicians sell progressive income taxes as a way to screw the rich, when it actually just screws the upper middle class, since the actual rich don't have jobs to tax the income from.

There are many people making over $200,000/yr. With 20 years of investing $150,000 of that, it's incredibly easy to have over $6.5 million. I don't see why it can't be a two-pronged approach with both higher income taxes and wealth taxes. It's what was done in the 1950's, and there was still plenty of wealth then.

Investing 100% of your post-tax income for 20 years is easy?

(Which would get you to three million by the way)

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#13
post #3

Makes my blood boil reading this, especially how poor republicans who have the most to gain through tax reform are consistently voting against their interest.

But poor republicans have often a religious obligation to vote republican. So do you vote democrat to get more money and fail your religious obligtation? Or do you vote repblican to fulfill your religious obligation at the cost of some rich guys getting richer? Not all people vote through an economic lens. Many othet lenses exist. Religion is just one of them. You could replace religion with gun rights. Or states rig…

This is why our two-party political system needs to change. It's proven inadequate to reflect the people in a nuanced enough way.

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#14
post #3

Makes my blood boil reading this, especially how poor republicans who have the most to gain through tax reform are consistently voting against their interest.

That's not true. Actual poor people pay very little, if any, income tax. As the article pointed out, this is most damaging to the upper-middle class.

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#15
post #2

Because politicians sell progressive income taxes as a way to screw the rich, when it actually just screws the upper middle class, since the actual rich don't have jobs to tax the income from.

It's not the progressive tax structure that's the problem, it's the fact that cap gains are taxed at a much lower rate than other forms of income.

That's to encourage money to be invested and also to compensate for the risks.

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#18
post #6

The biggest lie is this nonsense about "double taxation," ie taxing money that's already been taxed is somehow unfair. So stupid. Capital gains tax shouldn't exist. It should all be one income tax. You can carve out discounts or exemptions for things like sale of PPOR, sale of family business up to a certain point, if you want.

If you want to distinguish between the creation of wealth vs. the appropriation of wealth it makes sense to distinguish between earned and unearned income.

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many people making over $200,000/yr. With 20 years of investing $150,000 of that, it's incredibly easy to have over $6.5 million. I don't see why it can't be a two-pronged approach with both higher income taxes and wealth taxes. It's what was done in the 1950's, and there was still plenty of wealth then.

> It's what was done in the 1950's, and there was still plenty of wealth then. That time period was one of great prosperity that won't be repeated. Market returns were higher; most of the low hanging fruit has been plucked, and you can expect ~5% in equities returns. Its going to take far more capital now to get the same returns your grandparents had, which is why you see capital chasing returns across the world. htt…

Then why not try to structure our economy so that the lower and middle classes have more money to spend? It seems like that would be a pretty good way to get the economy moving more since giving poorer people money increases the velocity of money considerably[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money

Re: Why American Workers Pay Twice as Much in Taxes as Wealthy Investors

#20

> Americans in the top 1 percent, and especially the top 0.1 percent, have seen their wealth and income multiply in recent decades as the rest of the country’s share of the economic pie shrank. Since 2000, a recent study found, the top 1 percent have made those gains almost entirely on income from capital, especially corporate stock—not on labor income. One reason may be the financial options of the wealthy: Business…

They're currently trying to close a couple of those loopholes here in Canada, and it's surprising how much traction the complaints against the reforms are getting. The opponents are claiming that the reforms are going to devastate family doctors and family farms. The complaints are mostly bogus, but people don't understand tax law so are vulnerable to an emotional plea.
Post reply on HN