Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 296 posts

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#231

Post by roblabla »

themihai wrote: post #215
lern_too_spel wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet this "fundamental difference" does not change the fact that both companies' devices provide exactly the same amount of privacy out of the box, while only the Google device is truly yours to put whatever software you want on it, down to the OS.

The Google device is NOT truly yours because you have to look for cracks if you want to root it or remove the Google stuff. The law may also be against you if you crack it. You are just a guest on your device...you are "licensed" to use it just like you get license to play music on spotify, watch movies on netflix etc...nothing is owned anymore and very few people care.

This is not true on the actual Google devices (Nexus and Pixel lines) that have a supported path to flash your own rom, and root. Google so far has been supportive of the custom rom community. Some manufacturers (cough samsung cough) have not.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#232

Post by tinus_hn »

StavrosK wrote: post #214
muninn_ wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's an example of a common use case in which Apple is anti-freedom in your opinion?

Not being able to unlock your phone or sideload programs. I don't accept the "we know what's best for you" argument. They could have allowed jailbreaking and added huge warnings.

Apple allows you to 'sideload' apps as long as you get a (free) developer account.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#233

Post by remcob »

thinkMOAR wrote: post #229
remcob wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can choose non-US companies. OnePlus, Samsung, etc. I don't think China or S.Korea is less inclined to spy on you, but I suspect they are less competent at it.

ah man.. i just needed to clean my monitor of coffee reading this. :) Samsung, really? :D weeping angel rings a bell?

Yeah, it looks like the choices are between competent+PRISMed and incompetent. The former can likely only be accessed by the Five-Eyes. The latter may be secure, but may also be insecure and accessed by anyone. What would you bet on? For me, a deciding factor is that I don't live in a Five-Eyes country.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#234

Post by DavideNL »

benevol wrote: post #212
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #8

I have never seen a company both so technically capable and supportive of user privacy as Apple. It stands completely apart from all of the tech giants of today.

Apple is a partner of the NSA's PRISM program. We know that since Snowden, if you remember those revelations.

Also there's a big difference between 1) a company collecting and selling your data to other companies 2) a company giving authorities access to your data for complying with anti-terror laws.

I'm not implying i agree with how far governments go to intrude into peoples privacy. Just pointing out that i agree with OP that there's a big difference between for example Googles and Apples stance towards privacy.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#235

Post by Perseids »

thephyber wrote: post #17
ianferrel wrote: post #4

In the February 2017 case of a California artist who was questioned at San Francisco International Airport upon re-entry, after he finally agreed to unlock his iPhone, it was taken out of his sight for several minutes and could have been imaged without his knowledge. Under iOS 11, unless the artist, Aaron Gach, decided to actually give up the passcode (rather than type it in himself), he could at least have been reas…

As mentioned elsewhere, Apple can't prevent "rubber hose decryption" (where someone compels/coerces/tortures you to get access to an unlocked phone). I suspect this feature wasn't designed to prevent that threat. My guess is this somehow foils or mitigates the workaround that the Israeli company sold to the FBI after the San Bernadino phone issue.

What Apple could do to is to move the bar from "rubber hose decryption" to "rubber hose account access" by offering a dead simple cloud recovery. Imagine a "Flight mode" where everything on your phone is backed up to apple and your phone is presented with an "enter backup id and password" dialog which allows you to load anyone's cloud backup and is essential a factory reset. Border control might still force you to enter a backup id and password under the assumption that you surely have one, but (to my limited knowledge of the US legal framework) it would not be a felony to load a "duress" backup id (because there is no such thing as a duress backup id, just different data sets).

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#236

Post by Razengan »

remcob wrote: post #222
themihai wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but what choice do you have? Apple is the lesser evil here.

You can choose non-US companies. OnePlus, Samsung, etc. I don't think China or S.Korea is less inclined to spy on you, but I suspect they are less competent at it.

Isn't Samsung considered to be kind of an arm of the South Korean government? They also make weapons of war and other military equipment, and they haven't proven to be ethically or morally responsible, if not outright reprehensible.

For many people, their only positive quality seems to be "Not Apple."

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#237

Post by thinkMOAR »

remcob wrote: post #233
thinkMOAR wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ah man.. i just needed to clean my monitor of coffee reading this. :) Samsung, really? :D weeping angel rings a bell?

Yeah, it looks like the choices are between competent+PRISMed and incompetent. The former can likely only be accessed by the Five-Eyes. The latter may be secure, but may also be insecure and accessed by anyone. What would you bet on? For me, a deciding factor is that I don't live in a Five-Eyes country.

Pretty much agreed, though not living in a five eyes country doesn't mean any of those eyes aren't 'looking' at you. :)

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#238

Post by remcob »

thinkMOAR wrote: post #237
remcob wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it looks like the choices are between competent+PRISMed and incompetent. The former can likely only be accessed by the Five-Eyes. The latter may be secure, but may also be insecure and accessed by anyone. What would you bet on? For me, a deciding factor is that I don't live in a Five-Eyes country.

Pretty much agreed, though not living in a five eyes country doesn't mean any of those eyes aren't 'looking' at you. :)

Quite the opposite actually, if you're a citizen of it you have some constitutional protection against your own government spying on you, at least in the U.S. AFAIK. If you are outside of it, you're fair game.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#239

Post by on_and_off »

DavideNL wrote: post #234
benevol wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is a partner of the NSA's PRISM program. We know that since Snowden, if you remember those revelations.

Also there's a big difference between 1) a company collecting and selling your data to other companies 2) a company giving authorities access to your data for complying with anti-terror laws. I'm not implying i agree with how far governments go to intrude into peoples privacy. Just pointing out that i agree with OP that there's a big difference between for example Googles and Apples stance towards privacy.

How is Google selling your data to another company ?
Post reply on HN