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How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

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Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#51

Post by fergie »

Animats wrote: post #13

At least in Menlo Park, CA, I'm seeing more kids walking to school. You can now drive down a road that passes three schools around 3 PM without being caught in a traffic jam of SUVs queued up for kid pickup. I wonder if computer use is helping. I used to see kids struggling under enough backpack for a weekend campout. The backpacks seem to be much smaller now. Maybe more content is on tablets and laptops.

Yes, its my impression that the tide is turning, particularly in urban areas that are walkable, and a lot safer than they were 20-30 years ago

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#52

Post by jakobegger »

I‘m really glad this parent is fighting the decision; no ministry should be able to interfere with personal freedoms when the stakes are so low, basing their decisions on far fetched court cases that have nothing to do with the situation.

As a point of comparison, school kids in Austria typically walk to school or use public transit on their own from first grade (6-7 years old).

In the beginning of the school year, older students watch zebra crossings and block traffic when kids need to cross.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#53

Post by pamqzl »

tanto wrote: post #49
gwatch wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This won't happen today in San Francisco city, because of decrease in social capital. I live downtown and I will not anyone's kids to wander around like that. First, you'll be lucky if MUNI driver is even remotely friendly, then there are druggies on the street, and so on. Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecogniza…

Just checked your other comments. You really seem to HATE "leftism". You really should think about the fact that you are calling the political direction of many other people "cancer"

That's pretty common on both sides of politics these days, sadly.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#54

Post by sametmax »

averagewall wrote: post #50

What must be the most painful part of this is that he's in a weak position having shared custody. A normal parent could just give the middle finger and they'll never have their kids taken away for a single minor behaviour like that. But someone with tenuous custody has to bend over backwards to look like they're doing it right. It seems he could actually lose his kids quite easily because they have another home ready…

It's amazing an institution as such power, and that they can exercise such power, not based so much on a legal ground as on moral ground. Yeah they mentioned lawyers, but there is no law against what the parent did.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#55

Post by pamqzl »

AstralStorm wrote: post #43
dagw wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with the general assertion in the article, cherry picking statistics for just one, very rare, crime isn't compelling evidence. Why not present the stats for all relevant crimes?

So what kinds of crimes are you willing to look at? Murders and abductions are probably the worst and easiest to track. Robbery much harder and often unreported or reported as bullying.

Honestly I'd be far more worried about my kid being hit by a car than being a victim of any crime.

Or maybe they try something stupid (we all did stupid things as kids and I don't expect my kids to be smarter than I was) and wind up drowning in the river or falling off something.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#57

Post by devwastaken »

gwatch wrote: post #42
Stratoscope wrote: post #37

Back around 1960, when I was eight and my little sister was six, we went with our dad to a chess tournament at the Mechanics' Institute in San Francisco. [1] Of course if you're six and eight and not really into chess, nothing could be more boring. So we asked Dad if we could do something else. He gave us a few nickels and quarters and said "sure, how about riding the cable cars and go see the town?" So we did! It wa…

This won't happen today in San Francisco city, because of decrease in social capital. I live downtown and I will not anyone's kids to wander around like that. First, you'll be lucky if MUNI driver is even remotely friendly, then there are druggies on the street, and so on. Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecogniza…

>Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecognizable compared to 1960.

Sounds like something that should be backed up by a data point if you're looking to contribute something to the discussion.

>Leftism is a cancer, and a road to third world culture, paved by good intentions.

You've given exactly one point, with no references. When you jump to extreme conclusions such as the one you're making, that undoubtably creates a 'cancer' you're speaking of because it puts down any intelligent discussion. Without that, how can you or I be informed? I would argue that extremes such as that are what contribute to a political climate where its more important what party or political idealogy you belong to, than what you're actually saying.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#58

Post by lawl »

daxfohl wrote: post #19
nicklaf wrote: post #3

Any countries out there where this kind of helicopter parenting isn't endemic in the culture?

Per walking / public transit to school, Japan is always the big example where many kids do so on their own. I feel like I've read this is mandatory there, but a quick search finds no backing evidence so maybe not. I'm curious though in Japan whether this is part of a general trend combating helicopter parenting, or if it's just a one-off social norm.

In Switzerland kids often walk to Kindergarten (age 4/5 and up) alone. At least I know I did (okay it was only like a 5 minute walk in my case). For school in can't remember anyone ever being brought by their partents. (Probably excluding the first few days of course).

So this quote

> the Ministry had checked with their lawyers “across the country” and the Attorney General, and determined that children under 10 years old could not be unsupervised in or outside the home, for any amount of time

has me really like WTF.

Edit: A bit more background now that I'm thinking about it. It's completely normal for kids in Kindergarten to go there alone, the first day each kid gets a reflector thingy(?)[0] they wear to walk there so they can be seen easily while crossing streets. Every morning you see a bunch of little kids toddling to Kindergarten, I've never really thought about this being different anywhere else.

[0] https://www.max-der-dachs.ch/files/shopimage/photo/8/vga_leu...

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#59

Post by dagw »

pamqzl wrote: post #55
AstralStorm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what kinds of crimes are you willing to look at? Murders and abductions are probably the worst and easiest to track. Robbery much harder and often unreported or reported as bullying.

Honestly I'd be far more worried about my kid being hit by a car than being a victim of any crime. Or maybe they try something stupid (we all did stupid things as kids and I don't expect my kids to be smarter than I was) and wind up drowning in the river or falling off something.

Oh absolutely. but if we're talking about crimes, it's much more likely that my kid would get robbed on her way to school rather than kidnapped.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#60

Post by [deleted] »

new299 wrote: post #21

I'm sympathetic. But given the article is against "fact-free" parenting. I didn't find the data presented very compelling. Basically you'd need to know how common crime against children traveling unsupervised on buses in a similar scenario. The closest example presented is kids in New York riding the subway, so presenting stats on that would be useful. I'd also like more details on the Japanese example, it's honestly…

[deleted]
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