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How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

5kids1condo.com

11–20 of 193 posts

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#11
post #2

>Attorney General, and determined that children under 10 years old could not be unsupervised in or outside the home Good night... glad I live in America.

America's got its own share of issues wrt this topic:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/living/feat-maryland-free-rang...

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#12
post #6

Over-protecting kids is probably not the main point here. Bureaucrats tend to focus on only one goal: not taking any responsibility or risks. Letting kids being independent is a risk for them, even if this is for their own good. And you can carefully explain to them the case, with scientific evidences, but they are not accountable for anything, and won't bother to change their mind. Because there is a second thing bu…

The counterpoint is, however, that the 'risk' is real: while most parents wouldn't hold the ministry accountable for minor risks, 'most' is not 'all'. They're doing CYA for a reason, not because they get jollies from it.

It's the same reason why politicians say nothing of substance anymore. In the olden days, the occasional slip-up would slide. These days if you say the wrong thing, you can spend weeks or months defending it, and it can even cost you your job.

It's not just a case of 'bureaucracy gone crazy', but also of 'we demand too much of them'. The stereotypical example is that teachers used to just teach, and now they need to be nurses and social workers as well.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#13
At least in Menlo Park, CA, I'm seeing more kids walking to school. You can now drive down a road that passes three schools around 3 PM without being caught in a traffic jam of SUVs queued up for kid pickup.

I wonder if computer use is helping. I used to see kids struggling under enough backpack for a weekend campout. The backpacks seem to be much smaller now. Maybe more content is on tablets and laptops.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#14
Bureaucrats have little stake in this but see high risk to their careers so they want to play safe. Only way to affect change is to somehow convince them that this is good for their career. Or get lucky enough and find the one person who believes in and cares enough to push the issue through the system.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#15
I walked the whole city I was born in and took whatever busses and trolleys I wanted (I knew all the routes) when I was 7-9 years old (in the 80's) in a city of 300-400k people. This is simply insane and stupid. It's the reason why I will never have kids in the US or Canada. What kind of shitty culture and society allows this kind of degradation of kids? Is it any wonder they grow up not knowing how to live? It's shameful and disgusting to allow children to be policed in this way. I'd blame it on government/bureaucracy, but it only follows the norms of the shitty culture that enables it.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#16
post #12
post #6

Over-protecting kids is probably not the main point here. Bureaucrats tend to focus on only one goal: not taking any responsibility or risks. Letting kids being independent is a risk for them, even if this is for their own good. And you can carefully explain to them the case, with scientific evidences, but they are not accountable for anything, and won't bother to change their mind. Because there is a second thing bu…

The counterpoint is, however, that the 'risk' is real: while most parents wouldn't hold the ministry accountable for minor risks, 'most' is not 'all'. They're doing CYA for a reason, not because they get jollies from it. It's the same reason why politicians say nothing of substance anymore. In the olden days, the occasional slip-up would slide. These days if you say the wrong thing, you can spend weeks or months defe…

> In the olden days, the occasional slip-up would slide. These days if you say the wrong thing, you can spend weeks or months defending it, and it can even cost you your job.

I think Trump is proving you wrong.

But I get your point, the risk is really because a few people are idiots with too much powers to break things.

We see the same things with the medical personal: they get very cautious and conservative because they are held accountable when something goes wrong, whether it's their fault or not.

But then forbidding idiots to have power would not be very democratic wouldn't it ?

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counterpoint is, however, that the 'risk' is real: while most parents wouldn't hold the ministry accountable for minor risks, 'most' is not 'all'. They're doing CYA for a reason, not because they get jollies from it. It's the same reason why politicians say nothing of substance anymore. In the olden days, the occasional slip-up would slide. These days if you say the wrong thing, you can spend weeks or months defe…

> In the olden days, the occasional slip-up would slide. These days if you say the wrong thing, you can spend weeks or months defending it, and it can even cost you your job. I think Trump is proving you wrong. But I get your point, the risk is really because a few people are idiots with too much powers to break things. We see the same things with the medical personal: they get very cautious and conservative because…

I was really into the parent comment then yours just grabbed it right by the thoughtful response.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#18
post #13

At least in Menlo Park, CA, I'm seeing more kids walking to school. You can now drive down a road that passes three schools around 3 PM without being caught in a traffic jam of SUVs queued up for kid pickup. I wonder if computer use is helping. I used to see kids struggling under enough backpack for a weekend campout. The backpacks seem to be much smaller now. Maybe more content is on tablets and laptops.

Computer use is likelier helping through the existence of cell phones. They're essentially electronically supervised, so the physical supervision feels less necessary to observers.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#19
post #3

Any countries out there where this kind of helicopter parenting isn't endemic in the culture?

Per walking / public transit to school, Japan is always the big example where many kids do so on their own. I feel like I've read this is mandatory there, but a quick search finds no backing evidence so maybe not.

I'm curious though in Japan whether this is part of a general trend combating helicopter parenting, or if it's just a one-off social norm.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#20
I think the question the Ministry official asked him about what would happen if the kids start fighting is an important part of the equation.

Society has gotten more legalistic. The bus driver or a random adult passenger doesn't have legally defined authority to discipline the author's kids, which means they don't have the authority at all.

But basic human decency demands you intervene if you see little kids fighting or doing something dangerous (even if you'd just roll your eyes if it was a couple of drunk guys).

This tension propagates through the system until somebody basically rules kids can't ride the bus unsupervised until they're old enough to be unsympathetic.

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